Do I have a Savage sniper?

[Peter Laidler]

Incidentally JM, When I was researching the book, the wartime man showed me everything relating to the No4T conversion over the course of a lovely day. And when we got into the examiners room, now/then the rest room, he put his hand into a little recess on the dest..., a sort of letter opening, and pulled out several stamps including sone of the little 'T's and the original '51' stamps of the REAL S51! There was no 'S' there...... but not bad after 45 years!

[Roger Payne]

Peter,
Many thanks for your clarity on the subject of H&H conversions & the transfer over from converting BSA Maltby & Savage rifles to BSA rifles alone. I am pretty sure you're correct, in so far as we can ever be sure (unless more documents come to light). If one looks at the dates when production at the factories started (generally mid 41) the change over from Mk1 to Mk1* configuration at Savage (beginning of 42) & the time that H&H conversions came on line (mid to late 42) then it all fits. Like you, I have suspected for a long time that relatively few Mk1* conversions were effected simply because only fairly small quantities of rifles had arrived in the UK by the time H&H concentrated on weapons of BSA manufacture. This argument would also support why more Mk1 rifles (having come of the production line earlier) got so far as being scoped up.

ATB

[Peter Laidler]

The sequencing does all fit into place DRP and others. I even commented somewhere in the little No4T book about Savage Mk1*T's, to the effect that I had NEVER seen a S Mk1*T I think I'd have to wait a LONG time before I ever saw one...if I ever did so I wouldn't be holding my breath. I didn't have to wait long..., just after the book was published, and I saw an L42 made from one! Like you say, you ain't never seen 'em all with Lee Enfields!

Fascinating subject though..........

[Warren]

I took a closer look at my Savage 4(T) and as it looks in the photo, it is well worn. The S51 is very thin from years of use and also the forend is British. The scope number is on the top of the wrist (none matching) and I this week I will pull the wood and check for other numbers on the butt and markings on the barrel. The old girl has been sitting on the wall for 40 years here and was "on the wall" elsewhere for another 20 plus, so I can only "assume (*** of u *** of me) that is not "humped". Scope is 41 dated and mount is un-numbered but wear and patina match and again is "as is" as I got it. The Savage T that was in western Canada was a matching unit and I believe it was re-numbered on the wrist for the scope but the mount number did match the rifle. I have a couple other T units myself where the mount matches but the scope does not but the scope number has been changed on the wrist (not Savage's, just your bog standard British no.4(T)'s
It appears that a short treatise on the Savage T's is in order so something for a cold snowy winter project.

[Mudhut]

Thanks to all for the information provided. Very interesting. One more question...and I apologize if it is a FAQ. Approximately how many No4Mk1 snipers were built up (scoped and unscoped)?

[Badger]

Thanks to all for the information provided. Very interesting. One more question...and I apologize if it is a FAQ. Approximately how many No4Mk1 snipers were built up (scoped and unscoped)?

Check the MKL entry for the 1944 Enfield No.4 Mk1(T) Sniper Rifle (Mfg by BSA Shirley - M47c) displayed in the England - Milsurp Knowledge Library.

Specs and quantities (and data sources) are all covered ...

Regards,
Badger

[Mudhut]

Thanks, Badger! Do you work all the time?

[jmoore]

Is it common for the scopeless Savage conversions to be w/o the mid-swivel like Mudhut's? If it was done later on, it would seem that feature would be included.

[Peter Laidler]

If you buy a little book about the No4T and the Holland and Holland connection Mud hut, you'll find the answer in there............

[Badger]

Thanks, Badger! Do you work all the time?

Not as much as I used to, particularly with the great Advisory Panel here who have picked up a lot of my slack ....

Really great group surrounding these Lee Enfield forums. I've learned more about Enfields from reading posts in the last year from Peter, Roger, Brian, Lance, breakeyp, Son, Simon, Wheaty, Stencollector, tiriaq, Claven2, Lee Enfield, Nigel and a raft of others, then I have in the last 5 years.

Thanks to everyone who supports the forum and makes it a really friendly and enjoyable to place to sit down with a pint, read quality posts and share knowledge.

Regards,
Badger (Doug)