Savage No.4 Mark 1 (T)

[Amatikulu]

Roger,

I have two 1942 Savage No.4 Mark 1's and neither of them have any mark on the flat on the right side of the boltway. Look at the picture I posted originally of the right flat - it shows two stamps which have a crown over something followed by the letter "E" and another stamp I haven't seen before. I suspect they are "Enfield" markings but have no proof.

[MJ1]

Brain will you still rebarrel my '45? It's missing the first 3".

What with the fair and garden I have dropped the ball again.

[Amatikulu]

I just took a look in the Knowledge Library at the Trials Sniper - converted at Enfield
http://imageevent.com/badgerdog/brit...1tsnipertrials

Picture 85 pretty much shows the same Enfield stamps on the boltway flat.

I think that's significant with respect to where my rifle was converted.

[Brian Dick]

Roger,

I'd agree with Bruce that all of the Savage "T" rifles were set up by H&H. Pre-
1943 H&H conversions don't have the S51 on the buttstock as far as I've seen. I'd guess that even 1942 dated Savage rifles didn't get into their hands until 1943 at least.

Yes, 0C160 has it's original six groove barrel, Mk./1 cocking piece and other early features like the forend machined for a cut-off like a Trials rifle.

I sure hope so. We'll see how it goes. That was the best trip I've had in a long time and I travel quite a bit. You guys and everyone else in both France and England were great. Thanks again.

[Brian Dick]

MJ,
Sure, just be sure and supply a barrel as I don't have any spares.

Amitikulu,
You found the examiner's marks! H&H rifles had them applied too so it doesn't necessarily mean yours was converted at Enfield. They were applied when the rifle was completed with the addition of a telescope and tested. Maybe Peter can elaborate?

[Roger Payne]

Amatikulu,
I think we're talking at cross purposes; the examiner's marks I was referring to are the ones that are always found on the front body pad (mount base in modern parlance) of Enfield converted T's (Trials rifles). Harry Hardwick (his name if I remember correctly) the outlying Enfield examiner at H&H had the stamp D6E but the E, whilst indicating 'Enfield' doesn't mean that he (& the conversion) was actually located there.

But I guess we'll never know the answers to all of the questions, which is what makes collecting so fascinating.

ATB

[Roger Payne]

Brian,
Thx for yours. I was over there again with my son, who just happened to go for a walk up to High Wood & also just happened to find half a dozen Mills bombs! Fortunately he has the good sense to know when to look but not touch. I'm hoping you can make it next year so we can have a little longer out there next time....

Got to go....off to 're-look' at Savage T markings.

ATB

[Brian Dick]

Amitikulu, I saw your rifle's twin at the Knob Creek show last weekend. It was marked exactly the same as yours with the "TR" selection mark, had no finish "T" on the side of the body, no S51 stamped on the underside of the buttstock and the examiners marks all present. It no longer had a scope but has a scope number on the wrist so it was fitted with one at some point in it's career. It also had the "England" export mark stamped on the ring of the body and no post 1968 U.S. import marks. We know there's at least one more like yours out there. Brian

[Peter Laidler]

If a No4T came through our workshops without the T mark, then the IN examiner would simply mark his inspection sheet 'mark with T designator' and the Armourer with the job would simply stamp it according to the EMER which states '........in accordance with its telescope status' or something like that.

I have to say that we didn't mark the bracket with the rifle number as a matter of course because you had to remove the bracket to do it. If a bracket was being changed or re-fitted (forger getting off early on that day.....) then you'd number or re-number it

[Amatikulu]

Brian, was it's serial number lower than 0C1000? Having seen it at Knob Creek, do you still think it's an early Holland and Holland coversion?

I pulled the butt stock of mine the other night and it doesn't have any serial number stamped on the end bit - does anyone with a known Enfield conversion know if they stamped the serial number here like H&H?

The serial number of the scope on my rifle corresponds with a very early Watson No.32 Mark 1 scope (1906)