not intended to **** off any krag lovers but

[Pelago]

why was the krag adopted, if i read my history right the best rifle at the time was the mauser. and it shot a better bullet, so why did the us adopt a (imho) 2nd best rifle

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[jmoore]

Or the Remington Lee, with or w/o a mag cutoff? And No foreign patent fights!

[OrderlySgt]

Likely the same reason they left all the Lewis guns in the US and used that French POS excuse for a machine gun in WWI?

[kragluver]

At the time the Krag was adopted (1892), it was not yet clear that the Mauser was the best bolt action design. Remember, in the early 1890s, all bolt action designs were brand new and there was not yet a need to push chamber pressures above 40KSI. The Army still put a lot of weight on the ability to single load the rifle and the concept was to utilize the magazine in reserve. This coupled with the fact that the Krag magazine could be topped off with a round in the chamber (which the Mauser could not) helped win the day for the Krag. Also, the Mauser as tested (circa 1892) did not perform as well in the various durability and reliability tests as the Krag. Incidentally, the Lee Enfield performed well in those same tests and if you read between the lines of the reports, most likely placed second in the magazine rifle trials. However, Lee had got cross-ways politically with the powers that be at US Ordnance and there was no way "his" rifle design would win The Krag was a good and functional design - is the Mauser better? Yes, but that wasn't so apparent in 1892.

[Jeff L]

My understanding is that the brass didn't want troops to waste ammo with new bolt action rifles. Then they had to fight in Cuba against troops armed with Mausers and reconsidered. Thus the 1903 was developed.

-Jeff L

[charles isaac]

Kragluver is on it and could probably write a short novel on the subject. I'll help out and add some.

There are a lot of factors you have to take into account such as the experiences and thinking of the men responsible for choosing the new rifle.

Small arms technology was traveling at a speed unequaled at any other time in history.

In a 40 year time span, the US went from smooth bore muskets, to rifled muskets, then the breech loader and finally the smokeless repeater. 40 years ago we were using the same rifle we are using today!

Some noteworthy points:

The Chief of Ordnance was a Civil War Veteran.

The Krag literally blew away the Mauser in the dirt tests-only wiping action of the Soldiers hand was permitted to clear the fouled weapon.

The Ordnance Corps specified rimmed cartridges. The Mauser did not work well with them.

The ability to have the weapon ready to fire while reloading was preferred-still is today.

Ability to fire as a single loader. The Krag has a machined tray above the magazine that made it superior for this.

I do not agree with all of this, but it was the thinking of the day.

If you ever get a chance to see "The History of the Gun", Ian Hogg spends a lot of time railing against the Krag, as if trying to ensure future generations will view the Krag as a complete and utter failure on the part of the Americans for being an inferior design and how we learned our lesson against the Spanish that were armed with 7mm Mausers, culminating in us copying the Mauser.

Ian fails to mention:
1. The Krag was invented by Europeans.
2.The Lee adopted by the English was invented by an American.
3. The first models of Enfields the English used had a magazine cutoff AND-
4. No provision for clip loading!
5. The English learned their lesson against the Boers armed with 7mm Mausers.
6. The English attempted to adopt a Mauser, in 7mm even, sometime after learning their lesson against the Boers. WWI stopped the project and the Americans produced the rifle for them in .303.

Hope this helps

[Pelago]

i have heard people say that the average enlisted man could not be trusted with a rifle that he could fire five times without reloading

don't know who said it, but since they were using napoleonic methods in wwI sounds right

[jon_norstog]

Or the Remington Lee, with or w/o a mag cutoff? And No foreign patent fights!

I've used the Remington Lee quite a bit and can say it is a weapon with many fine points. But having used the Krag and the Remingon-Lee, I would take the Krag any day in any situation involving the use of small arms.

The Lee's faults are (worst) an unreliable extractor/ejector, its half-cock bolt plunger safety, and a bolt assembly with tiny parts easy to lose in the field. Its strengths are its extremely strong action, detachable box magazine and light weight.

I could have taken the Lee hunting anytime, and have always taken the Krag instead, even though it weighs a pound ANd a half more, and I won't load it up the way I can with the Lee.

Try both rifles. You'll see what I mean.

jn

[jon_norstog]

Or the Remington Lee, with or w/o a mag cutoff? And No foreign patent fights!

I've used the Remington Lee quite a bit and can say it is a weapon with many fine points. But having used the Krag and the Remingon-Lee, I would take the Krag any day in any situation involving the use of small arms.

The Lee's faults are (worst) an unreliable extractor/ejector, its half-cock bolt plunger safety, and a bolt assembly with tiny parts easy to lose in the field. Its strengths are its extremely strong action, detachable box magazine and light weight.

I could have taken the Lee hunting anytime, and have always taken the Krag instead, even though it weighs a pound ANd a half more, and I won't load it up the way I can with the Lee.

Try both rifles. You'll see what I mean.

jn

[tbeck]

Jon, I think you are on to something. I have only shot the 45-70 Lees, but their action feels like stirring a bucket of bolts next to a Krag. Keep in mind, the ordnance folks were all denizens of the target range and prized slick, accurate rifles above fast loading, fast shooting rifles.

I read once that the Germans produced the best hunting rifles (Mauser), The Americans produced the best target rifles (Krag and '03) and the Brits produced the best battle rifles (Lee).