"ZF" marking on Enfields?

[Badger]

Hi Peter …

I had an email from someone asking about his Savage No.4 Mk.1/3 Lee Enfield, which has the marking "ZF" on the right side of the buttstock. He wanted to know what that meant and he said he was told:

"ZF" = Beyond local repair except at factory

I guess his question is, that if it hasn't been through an FTR (Factory Thorough Repair) process someplace, is this rifle safe to shoot?

From an armourer's perespective, can you provide any clarification as to a more exact meaning of this marking and provide recommendations to members who may come across a rifle with this marking on it?

Thanks …

Regards,
Badger

Information

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[Peter Laidler]

The short answer to this is that the ZF marking to an Armourer means that this is the end of the line.

The Z means that it has been condemned at a Base workshop (that's the Z bit) as suitable only for a Factory Repair (that's the F part). This will indicate something to do with a part that cannot be rectified at Base Workshop and that is inevitably a damaged body. On a No4 rifle, this is what we call 'the master component', a part that is NEVER supplied as a spare part through the Ordnance channels.

There was only one other mark that was more extreme than ZF and that was ZF-BER. Which meant that in addition to the ZF, one of the examiners had decreed it to be beyond economic repair in any case. But effectively, both were the same......................

There was a milder Z-BER which indicated that it wasn't even worth sending to the factory and at workshops, these were torched!

So, the rifle your correspondent is referring to falls into one of three categories
1) scrap
2) very scrap
3) Extremely scrap

[Tikirocker]

Interesting, while I am also aware of the ZF designation ... I've got a Savage No4 Mk1* that was used right throughout the 1960's as a Fullbore target rifle that also has it original Savage marked stock with ZF on the right side the of the butt stock and R ( Repair ) over REME on the left. The rifle has an almost perfect 2 groove barrel and shoots very well with no sign of trouble from me.

I wonder if there were some ZF marked rifles that fall into the same category as some DP'd rifles.

Tiki.

[jona]

The answer is where the mark was placed: On the butt stock. The receiver was scrapped, and the butt stock re-used(the Brits NEVER threw anything away that was still usable). So while the butt is still marked ZF, the receiver the mark was intended for is probably long gone.

[Son]

Jona, that was pretty much where I was at with my '43 Longbranch. The rifle is all matching (un-numbered magazine) with a '43 dated 2 groove barrel and still has grease under the handguards, cond. VG+! There are no marks anywhere that weren't on it when it left the factory other than the commercial proof stamps at the muzzle and the ZF on the butt. I can only assume it had a previously used butt fitted at some stage....

Hello, Simon; any chance of a pic of the "repair" markings on your butt? I assume that would indicate a receiver repair/ change. Wondering if there's anything to indicate what was done...?

Peter, did they send them back XX/ZBLR or ZF for re- coating with suncorite if the finish on the metal got too thin/ shiney or even rusted, or was the painting/ re coating able to be done at a lower level of repair?

Here's a couple of pics of mine... any/ all comments welcome...

[Edward Horton]

Edited by Moderator: Content unrelated to topic being discussed.

[No4Mk1(T)]

Jona, that was pretty much where I was at with my '43 Longbranch. The rifle is all matching (un-numbered magazine) with a '43 dated 2 groove barrel and still has grease under the handguards, cond. VG+! There are no marks anywhere that weren't on it when it left the factory other than the commercial proof stamps at the muzzle and the ZF on the butt. I can only assume it had a previously used butt fitted at some stage....

Hello, Simon; any chance of a pic of the "repair" markings on your butt? I assume that would indicate a receiver repair/ change. Wondering if there's anything to indicate what was done...?

Peter, did they send them back XX/ZBLR or ZF for re- coating with suncorite if the finish on the metal got too thin/ shiney or even rusted, or was the painting/ re coating able to be done at a lower level of repair?

Here's a couple of pics of mine... any/ all comments welcome...

I would have to agree that at the very least your butt plate has been replaced as Long Branch No4’s came with ether a Blued steel or zamac (sp.?) one. Is your butt stock LB marked? Also to the best of my knowledge Canadian FTR’s were not painted with Suncorite. The 4 or 5 in my collection are all Park’ed. In 1943 the original finish would have been blued.

[John R.]

I can assure you that IF you had a 'chit' from the WO 1 you could indeed have a brand new and UN-numbered spare receiver issued AFTER you turned in the old and condemned one.All that I saw were dated 1943 at that point although I LATER saw a few used to FTR British rifles with dates in the 1950's.These appeared when the "War Reserve"No 4's were sold off a Surplus in the 90's and imported to Canada.Just like the FIRST Canadian Arsenals made No2MkI* 9mm pistol slide I ever saw was when I was issued a Hi-Power to go shooting one Wednesday afternoon at the 25yd range behind the Parachute Reg't Museum at Aldershot.I was a popular lad there due to my having 'arranged' the new engines for their Dak that paid for the Geodesic Dome over said aircraft.
Canada DID have spare receivers sans any numbers for the No4's as well as the better known C No7 .22's.JR

[Son]

I would have to agree that at the very least your butt plate has been replaced as Long Branch No4’s came with ether a Blued steel or zamac (sp.?) one. Is your butt stock LB marked? Also to the best of my knowledge Canadian FTR’s were not painted with Suncorite. The 4 or 5 in my collection are all Park’ed. In 1943 the original finish would have been blued.

The buttplate is brass. There are a few confused marks in the back of the trap, the only marks on the plate itself are on the inside, between the screw hole and butt trap. It has an inset "F" and a raised "FI" below.

The butt has B over 56 and the C with the broad arrow in it directly behind the trigger guard underneath.

You can see my confusion- the butt ZF marking, all original '43 parts (except butt and plate?) no FTR or even repair markings, but painted with suncorite and still greased!

Late British tidy up (paint- hence my Q for Peter...) - butt and buttplate replaced from the used parts box before sale?
Who knows-
Who cares I suppose... It looks very nice.

[John R.]

I can assure you that IF you had a 'chit' from the WO 1 you could indeed have a brand new and UN-numbered spare receiver issued AFTER you turned in the old and condemned one(this was at No25 CAOD).All that I saw were dated 1943 at that point although I LATER saw a few used to FTR British rifles with dates in the 1950's.These appeared when the "War Reserve"No 4's were sold off a Surplus in the 90's and imported to Canada.Just like the FIRST Canadian Arsenals made No2MkI* 9mm pistol slide I ever saw was when I was issued a Hi-Power to go shooting one Wednesday afternoon at the 25yd range behind the Parachute Reg't Museum at Aldershot.I was a popular lad there due to my having 'arranged' the new engines for their Dak that paid for the Geodesic Dome over said aircraft.
Canada DID have spare receivers sans any numbers for the No4's as well as the better known C No7 .22's.Spare UN-numbered Inglis Hi Power frames were ALSO available.JR