My No. 4, MK 1 Enfields

[gbalke]

Aside from my introduction post yesterday, this is my first post as an official Milsurp Forum member.

I currently own several war dated Enfield No. 4, MK 1 rifles. I'd like to share photos of these rifles with the forum members.

1943 dated L59A1 Drill Rifle. You can see the white painted bands, the DP designation on the lower white band, the stamped receiver and where the stock and chamber were cut away to deactivate the rifle. Shown with the rifle is a MK II helmet, an unissued canteen and Canadian marked skelton style canteen carrier.





1944 BSA (Shirley) manufactured No. 4. Also shown are the spike bayonet with scabbard and frog, breech cover, bandoleer for .303 caliber ammo, brass oiler and pull thru.



1945 Longbranch manufactured No. 4. This grouping is for my RCAF display and includes the RCAF blue sling, spike bayonet, scabbard and RCAF P-37 frog. Also shown is an Canadian Air Cadet's side cap with the white AC flash and cap badge, an 1941 dated copy of Manual of RCAF Drill and Ceremonial, a set of corporal stripes and a black plastic oiler.



I also have what you might consider a "parts guns"; it's missing the complete bolt assembly, safety assembly, magazine and the spring and lever from its MK III rear sight. What should I do with it? No. 5 copy or how about a No.4MK1(T) copy? Or just rebuild it?

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Bearclaw]

Just rebuild it, then sell it and buy a No5

[Peter Laidler]

There are a few notes about those L59 rifles, one of which you have. They';re quite unusual as opposed to rare but are a genuine official Lee Enfield. In fact, apart from the No8 rifle which is still in service, the L59 was the LAST true Lee Enfiield in British service. Keep it because they ain't makin' any more. In fact, if it was me, I'd strip it and rebuild it properly (ask BDL to do this.....) and give it a semi-pride of place in your little collection

[jmoore]

I kinda like the L59 as it sits. If it was pristine, then it didn't see much drill!

Nice collection of accoutrements and accessories, too. You've been studying this stuff for a while, it appears, gbalke.

[Beerhunter]

I kinda like the L59 as it sits. If it was pristine, then it didn't see much drill!

I agree.

BTW the "Drill" in DP does not refer to just what would be called close order drill in the US. (Foot Drill in the UK.) It refers to all "dry" training including, for example, Holding, Aiming & Firing.

BTW2, how coma chap in St.Louis get to have an L59 when i have never seen them on sale this side of the pond? I'd love one to add to the collection on the walls of my gun room. (Just so as to hack off the FEO some more.)

[Alan de Enfield]

I agree.



BTW2, how coma chap in St.Louis get to have an L59 when i have never seen them on sale this side of the pond? I'd love one to add to the collection on the walls of my gun room. (Just so as to hack off the FEO some more.)

There was one sold a couple of months ago at ScotArms auction (Newark) but it had to be sold as an FAC rifle as it was listed on the sellers FAC. I had long (heated) discussions with the auctioneer following Peter laidlers previous posts on L59 staus - but - he would not move.
His argument was it came in as an FAC rifle and it had to go out as an FAC rifle.

For information for you 'furriners' a live rifle must be listed on your FAC (Firearms certificate) and kept safely locked up, whilst a de-activated rifle can be displayed.
I had thought of buying it and getting it de-listed but couldnt stand the thought of the aggravation and expense involved (maybe even court case with PL as an expert witness)

[Beerhunter]

I have a lot of sympathy for the auctioneer. As it stands, an, L59s CANNOT benefit from the 1988 Firearms Amendment Act because, although "deactivated", they have not been deactivated to the Statutory standard and so cannot the marks of one of the Proof Houses. That doesn't mean that they cannot legally held "off-ticket". However it does mean that you have to fight it out, possibly in court, in each case. That's the law!

Had the vendor supplied the auctioneer with documentary evidence of the lack of need for an FAC or RFD, that's another matter. So, in my opinion, the auctioneer was, unfortunately, spot on.

[gbalke]

I agree.

BTW2, how coma chap in St.Louis get to have an L59 when i have never seen them on sale this side of the pond? I'd love one to add to the collection on the walls of my gun room. (Just so as to hack off the FEO some more.)

Long story short, I met a fellow at a gun show, he got me intereted in reenacting Canadian WW II and I bought several No.4's from him, the DR being one of them. He was, by the way, a licensed dealer and had not only No.4's in his stock, he has several other fine weapons; Sten, MG42, BAR, plus several Canadian Bren Carriers.

---------- Post added at 01:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:19 PM ----------

I kinda like the L59 as it sits. If it was pristine, then it didn't see much drill!

Nice collection of accoutrements and accessories, too. You've been studying this stuff for a while, it appears, gbalke.

I've been collecting WW II items for over 20 years; started with US, moved on to Canadian and Brit and finally got addicted to WW II RCAF; hence the blue P-37 kit. The pieces shown are just the tip of the ice berg.

Can one of you fine gentlemen give me an idea on my L59's market value in its current condition?

[Peter Laidler]

There's only two prices Gbalke. The value YOU put on it and the value someone else puts on it. And there's only one place you can get that persons value........ at an auction. That's just plain hard business.

[gbalke]

I know it's not a No. 4, but here's the newest addition to my collection of war dated Enfields; a 1944 dated Lithow No. 1, MK 3. Won it on an auction just last night, hope it have it in my hands with in the next week or so.



Now I need my search for Australian made accessories such as a proper bayonet and scabbard, frog, oiler and what ever else I can find. Can one of my Australian friends tell me what I need to look for as far as Aussie manufacturer's marks used on P-37 webbing? Bearclaw?