Gunbroker auction. Considered and decided to ask a question about this one.

[newcastle]

Firstly before anyone gets annoyed I'm aware we're not supposed to show active auctions, and there have been threads regarding teh reasons. I absolutely respect that in a short auction cycle, however, this item has been on GB for months now and isn't seling for fairly evident reasons, and anyone who searches for enfield, 303 or P14 will have seen it many times. However having said that I have never seen a rear sight on a P14 like the one shown in pictures and the accompanying pamphlet. Is this what he says it is?

Enfield P14(F) Sniper..UPDATED INFO! Look! : Bolt Action Rifles at GunBroker.com

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Clash77]

I fail to comprehend why a sniper rifle would have volley sights affixed. It also seems to lack any form of scope mounting abilities, which is beguiling to me seeing as he continually refers to it as a sniper rifle.

[Thunderbox]

If it is genuine - which is probably impossible to verify - then it is a P14(F), a rifle fitted with a "fine adjustment" rearsight intended to be used by a designated sniper/sharpshooter/marksman. As such, it is indeed technically an official issue "sniper rifle", even though it is not fitted for a scope.

As the rearsight number does not match the rifle, there is no way of telling whether the rifle was ever a proper service "(F)" model, or if a subsequent civilian owner has just added the sight - a very common occurrence. I'm not even sure that many (F) rifles have survived intact - I'd guess that most of them would have had the non-standard rearsight removed when the No3 Mk1*(T)s were introduced, and the rifles returned to the pool.

[jmoore]

So he's selling a US$1500 sight with a rifle attached to it so it doesn't get lost?

But someone might just have to have it regardless- he hopes!

[newcastle]

So the sight is legit' then - just not necessarily specific to this rifle, and of course there is no provenence on this rifle being what he says it is.

[jmoore]

As for what that sight is ACTUALLY worth I haven't the foggiest. I just pulled a number that was sure to be the lion's share of the "package price". But if the matching rifle happened to show up, then it would be quite a bit. Now I have to look and see if my scoped rifle has the "right" sight... all these years and it never occurred to me to check....

BTW, it's a fairly nice rifle except that the front volley sight assembly seems to be fresher than the rest of the metal. Could be the photo, but it's a warning flag. I just can't buy this kind of stuff without a "hands on". Which is good for y'all, I reckon!

[bigduke6]

I seen one of these sights sold on ebay cant remember when it was, possibly in the last year or two, but it sold for a high price and not that far off JM,s quote.

[Promo]

The F sight sold for something between 400 and 600 US $, if I remember correctly. Wish I had bought it, but imho way too much money for a rear sight. However, all P.14 offered on gunbroker seem to be priced over the top anyway (at least compared to European prices).

[Badger]

Without seeing a pic of the back of the sight it's almost impossible to tell if it's a correct P14(F) adjustment sight. It has correct vertical lines on the adjustment knob, but that's all I can see in the seller's pics.

Here's two entries in the MKL for P14 sniper rifles. Both have a comment article in the Collector's Comments and Feedback section by Advisory Panel member Nigel Greenaway, where he discusses the P14(F) sights.

Regards,
Doug

No.3 MkI* (T) Rifle (BSA Scope) - (Pattern 1914 Mk1* W (T) Sniper Rifle)

No.3 MkI* (T) Rifle (PP Scope) - (Pattern 1914 Mk1* W (T) Sniper Rifle)

1. In reference to the special aperture rear sight with fine adjustment screw on the top, they were all Winchester made and converted by the British. All had the original Winchester rifle serial number on the back (as per unconverted Winchester sights). If Serial No. is barred out, it means that sights were taken off rifles, converted at Enfield, and then the sights were sent to WW1 sniping schools to retro fit on existing rifles at the school. If Serial No. is not barred out, then the same conversion process occurred, but the sight was put back on the original rifle held at Enfield. From the 30 or so that I have seen the ratio of barred out to not barred is 70:30

The giveaway on the fakes is a slightly larger adjustment knob with cross checkering. Real ones like the one mounted on the rifle which is the subject of this Knowledge Library entry (see pics below), have vertical lines on the knob.

P14(F) Authentic Sights
(Pics Courtesy of ~Angel~)
(Click PIC to Enlarge)
(Click PIC to Enlarge)


P14(F) Reproduction Sights
(Pics Courtesy of Terryinvictoria)
(Click PIC to Enlarge)

(Click PIC to Enlarge)


It took a while to search through a large ammo tin holding about 5000 P14 and M1917 rear sights but by the law of averages I thought I would find a few P14(F). Found about 20 and another ten or so turned up later. Sold most to friends and we formed a P14(F) team. Only got one spare left. You can get your elevation dead on so hitting Fig 14 Huns Heads at 400 yards was easy! ....... (Feedback by "Nigel Greenaway")

[jmoore]

Just a question that needs asking. Regarding the number on the sight leaf........., are these a rifle number that would match a P'14 rifle somewhere or are they just a sight/mating/works or similar number such as that seen on the mating parts of a PH5 for example?

In reference to the special aperture rear sight with fine adjustment screw on the top, they were all Winchester made and converted by the British. All had the original Winchester rifle serial number on the back (as per unconverted Winchester sights). If Serial No. is barred out, it means that sights were taken off rifles, converted at Enfield, and then the sights were sent to WW1 sniping schools to retro fit on existing rifles at the school. If Serial No. is not barred out, then the same conversion process occurred, but the sight was put back on the original rifle held at Enfield. From the 30 or so that I have seen the ratio of barred out to not barred is 70:30 The giveaway on the fakes is a slightly larger adjustment knob with cross checkering. Real ones like the one mounted on the rifle which is the subject of this Knowledge Library entry (see pics below), have vertical lines on the knob...

(Feedback by "Nigel Greenaway")

Here's the exerpt of the excerpt from Post #9.