No.1 Mk.III inner band.

[ut1seabee]

I have a 1921 Lithgow and want to know about tightening or adjusting the inner band screw.Don't know a lot about these rifles,does the inner band affect accuracy as to how the screw is set? Any answers greatly appreciated.

Information

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[stevebc]

From my readings, you should tighten that screw just enough to put tension on the band, but not snugged all the way down. I recently put new wood on an old Lithgow, and found that bit of advice somewhere, but can't recall exactly where! In my case, using a NOS (or was it reproduction?) forend, the hole drilled for the screw was too deep, and I couldn't get any tension on the band at all. I ended up using 2 inner band springs to space the screw out enough to bring the band down.

My understanding is that between the inner band tension and the nose cap tension from the forend stud spring, the barrel is held such as to reduce movement to a minimum.

And I've found where I got the inner band advice: from this forum, from "Bruce In Oz" who said "...This band should have a screw and spring pulling it DOWNWARDS, but NOT holding it tight against the barrel channel..."

Hope this helps.

[musketjon]

I asked that exact same question on a different forum and here are the answers that I received.
Jon

1)I normally tighten it, then back off by half a turn. I use that half turn whilst I zero the rifle, to see if there is an optimum position for the best group.
Because the spring is so small, the adjustment increments are tiny - 1/8 of a turn can have an effect (in a sensitive rifle). However, most rifles seem to work best with the screw nearly tight - "soft" hand tight.

2)The inner band in a correctly bedded No1 rifle does absolutely nothing. The full length fore end could cause accuracy problems with the light profile barrel if the bedding began to change due to climatic conditions. The inner band was designed to hold the barrel to the fore end and regulate it if the fore end warped. The inner band screw has a collar on it so that it locks to the band. The spring washer provides a little dampening of the barrel to the fore end if there is contact caused from a slightly warped/ badly fitted fore end.
Quite a lot of shooters believe it does act to adjust accuracy, and I can see how that would come about. Fact is, it is designed to be locked up and if the rifle failed the accuracy test then the bedding was adjusted to fix it.
I suppose it comes down to if it works for you, do it. Remember that every load variation you use will probably require a change of the screw tension to get the best out of it if fiddling with it makes any difference to your load

[Son]

From assembly instruction, No1 MkIII in SAIS No1. "Inner band; Spring should have slight play when screw is tightened up (test by pressure with large screwdriver)"
This means the screw locks to the inner band at the depth of the collar on the screw. The spring is compressed onto the foreend, but should still have some compression left- pressure on the screw head with a large screw driver should move the assembly slightly.

Lock it up. If there are accuracy issues, then it isn't the fault of the inner band.

WRT answer 1), musketjon... once the screw makes contact it is a metal to metal lock. There is virtually zero movement between "soft" contact and locked up.

[Peter Laidler]

I wasn't tooooo sure about this so it's taken a bit of time to search out the old wartime EMER's/Armourers training notes. And what Son says is absolutely correct. '...The screw is locked up against the inner band by the fixed pre-set length of the collar which sandwiches the spring against the band inner (no it doesn't....., it's between the screw and the fore-end). The remaining tension in the spring allows for the necessary vibration.......... etc etc etc.

This seemingly unnecessary band, spring and screw are important for the harmonics of the barrel during firing. Presumably the spring loading will dampen any whip as opposed to rigidly hold the barrel down. Thanks Son

[CINDERS]

Somewhere in my books I have seen where you mark in pencil of course, 8 equidistant lines around the screw hole and try the tension shooting with the screw head slot in line with one of the marks or in between this will give you 16 positions theoretically to get the point where the most accurate position is.
This does not mean you apply the 6' gorilla poundage to it but go by increments, James Sweets book also denotes the approximate position of nodes in the SMLE Mk III barrel and a method of bedding it in conjunction with the nodes interesting reading.
Sweet and Pavey must have known something as they could certainly get the rounds into the right spot.

[Son]

Peter, still looking for the source, but I found somewhere ages ago that the inner band and the barrel centering stud were added when the barrel was shortened to 25 inches and made to a lighter profile than the MLE barrel. The original idea was the bedding would maintain the accuracy of the rifle (action and knox bedded, an inch either side of the inner band bedded and then minimum of four inches up to the muzzle bedded into the foreend with between 4 and 7 lbs up thrust on the barrel. ) and the inner band and barrel centering stud would do nothing. If the bedding failed by way of warping of the foreend, the barrel centering stud would maintain some upward pressure on the barrel while the inner band holds against it, stopping the barrel from lifting. These things were to hold the barrel in a way akin to the foreend bedding so accuracy wasn't totally lost with the slightest warping of the foreend.

If they did as they were designed to do, could you imagine how much time the unit armourers would have saved, not re bedding rifles that had lost their accuracy?

[5thBatt]

The barrel centering stud came a little later but not by much it was "introduced" with the Mk1* but i believe it was introduced into production a bit earlier, my 1904 Mk1 SMLE is without the stud & spring.

[Ridolpho]

Yes, 5ThBatt: LoC 13509, Sep, 1905, if I'm reading it right, adds the stud and spring to what is still the SMLE Mk I. The intro of Mark I* is in '06 with approval dates from March through May.

Ridolpho

[CINDERS]

LoC 13509, Sep, 1905

I have a date in the Lee Enfield by Major E.G.B Reynolds - The Short Short Magazine Lee Enfield Mk I was accepted on the 23rd December 1902 (Page 84) as a weapon for both infantry and cavalry and the general particulars are as follows yada yada then on page 87;
"Inner Band - An inner band which encircled the barrel at the center with a clearance of .002 in, was fitted inside the stock fore end. It was held in position by a screw, spiral spring and a washer so that it was supported without being held rigidly. This allowed any possible expansion of the barrel."

Took a while to two finger type but there you go just info to share as the story goes on with the weapons we admire.