Some questions about .303" Mk.VIIIz ammo

[LondonEnfield]

Hi all! New poster, relatively long time lurker.

I'm taking up handloading at the moment and I've been wondering for a while how best to reproduce a service load with modern components. Here in the UK our only factory .303" options are PPU and S&B, both of which are adequate but far from exceptional.

From what I've read, nobody on this side of the pond makes a flat based 174gr bullet, only boat tails, which leads me to think it wouldn't be possible to faithfully reproduce the Mk.VII round. But wasn't the Mk.VIII's bullet boat tailed? And if so, what were the round's specifications?

I'd love to be able to produce ammunition that's as close as possible to the original. Thanks in advance for your help, folks.

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[Peter Laidler]

I have never been an ammo reloader but do follow the threads about reloading .303 a bit. Especially the holy grail of an exact match in every way, shape and form to replicate Mk7, 7z or 8z. Reminds me of when my son started senior school and we were required to buy a new PC. So I went to the IT dept and told the main man there that I wanted to buy dopey son a computer that would see him through his senior school years and through 6th form. Said computer should/would be as up to date THEN as it was when he started. A Computer holy grail in effect - so what would he recommend. He scratched his head, rubbed his chin, thought for a second and........ His answer was 3 words long. 'wouldn't we all.......'

I think that this is the answer that you're going to get. There'll be some very close but...........

[Bindi2]

Having been a 303 reloader since the late 60s early 70s the short answer is you cant. The projectiles are different the powders are better though you can replicate the power curve to a degree but the newer powders give higher velocity at a lower pressure peak. If you want to match range sight elevation scales tough you will have to make your own. I use Hornady 174gn and a charge of ADI 2208 to do what I want. The velocity is higher than cordite the felt recoil is much less. The T I use prints one shot holes @ 100yds and matches my 308 target rifle going back until the scope qualities come in to play. I use a Chronny to find the load the rifle likes then go from there. There are projectiles in the 175/180 gn weight than can be used with good results. It is a pity no one makes Mk7 they are the best by far. If you can source some suspect click bang ammo pull the projectiles and reload them.

[CINDERS]

Best projies I ever used were Taipan 170gn HPFB by Malcolm Bone, try as we may there is no projectile or manufacturer out there willing to tool up and mass produce the Mk VII or the IIIZ projectile.
As Bindi2 alluded and the fact is our powders are better, burn cooler than cordite, introduce possibly due to their burn rates a different node vibration in the barrel, the projies we use today have better BC's so flight curve is different than the Mk VII best thing is to load up varying powder weighted rounds with your selected powder and do the hard yards like we all did on the range to get the sight settings for your particular load that your rifle likes digesting, plenty of info out there to get started anyway.
Going from another persons pet load may not work in your rifle just as some rifles shot better than others from the factory in WWII they may come from the same line but are all different animals, I used Hornady 150gn SPFB up to 400m and they shot quite well considering and being .312" is better for slightly tired barrels as SMK's are somewhere between .310" .310.5" roughly speaking.

Nope its range time with varying loads bloke to find out exactly what works in your rifle, though a rumor is and they should not be far away is that HBC in Aus are going to make the Mk VII projectile it has been in the pipe line a long time apparently I think it is David is waiting for the forming dies to arrive so hopefully not to distant future, I cannot give any dates as there has been no word but safe to say there will be plenty of customers.
It may be a nice change for us here in Australia to have a product locally made so we do not have to hang on shipments after the producing companies have looked after their local markets we constantly go through waves of non supplies of various components be it brass, powder, primers and projectiles sometimes shipments are pretty much pre-sold and we in Western Australia suffer more than the rest of the country due to the shipments being landed in the eastern states and trucked over to us 0000's of klms away on the other side of Australia.

[martins8589]

For Aussie shooters, I am waiting for a reamer to be made to finish my bump up dies so I can make .312 and .313 174gn flatbase bullets. They will be made out of the Hornady 174gn bullet. When HBC get their 174gn .311 going I will have a go at using them as well. The reamer is being made of an original MKVII drawing.

[LondonEnfield]

Looks like I'd be on a hiding to nothing then. Thanks all, and good luck to the Aussies with the Mk.VII project. Hopefully someone imports a few up here!

[CINDERS]

The advice given here in all honesty is relevant to what your starting out to do, there are no secrets to reloading it is a step by step process just follow the rules trialing different powders and weights we all had to do it when I got developing loads to my 6.5/284 my first barrel was nearly shot out before I got the combination right for that barrel then do it all again for the new barrel so there is no easy road here 6.5/284 barrels are pretty much toast at @1200 rounds if shooting F class.
So because we do not give out the magic formula which I may say there is none its just range time to see what works and no offence I am not going to leave my a*se out in the wind for possible litigation in giving you a load that works in my rifles and for unknown reasons you blow yourself up and are injured or killed as I cannot vouch for just how well you reload your rounds.

Allot of us here are probably up to 0000's of rounds loaded at one stage I was reloading for 5 303's all of which like something a little different in powders & charge weights from its stable mates so sorry if you did not get the grail in this case case.
I would say HBC will look at exporting just have to see how long it takes to get up the numbers, as a footer I rang Malcolm Bone 14 months ago asking about 303 projies after not contacting him for 4 years with a similar request and was pretty much rebuffed nicely as Malcolm does in that it would cost him over 15,000 ~ 20,000 AU/dollars to get enough lead and copper components to make it a worthwhile endevour, he was hesitant of being stuck with unsaleable gear.
So anyone wanting the Taipans feel free to contact him and ask sure would be nice to buy the presses from him I have heard they were a bit ancient but they sure as heck produced a wickedly accurate .312 projectile.

[crusty]

you guys really need to try the Hornady 3130G .312 HPBT that Hornady make for Graf's in the US.
http://www.grafs.com/catalog/product...21415/inline/1

These shoot way better than the Sierra MatchKing. I load them to as close as possible to original velocity using ADI AR2209 powder.

I have put a few thousand through 3 or 4 different rifles. I have just ordered another 300 projs here in New Zealand.

[martins8589]

We would try them if they were available... We can only get the .311 Hornady's.

[crusty]

We would try them if they were available...

I wonder if the guys in NZ (Reloaders Supplies) import them direct from Grafs rather that Hornady??

I've not really had much luck with the fmj Hornady, they are really only .310".