When it really happens: SHTF...

[Aragorn243]

Three days of being out of the loop. Can't say I missed it.

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[Surpmil]

Which loop?

[AFJon]

Which loop?

4 legged steaks.
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=72663&page=1

[Aragorn243]

Yeah, hunting trip. Christmas music on the radio while traveling, no news on the TV at the hotel in the limited time we were there and awake. No computer time. Still had my phone but I didn't do much in the news area. Saw my dad for the first time in over a year. We don't visit a lot but usually more than that.

[ssgross]

To AArogorn's and usabaker's point and fourth group, many people are used to this and placid. Imagine a child that never tasted chocolate or in their whole life, and never even known it existed. Why would they care to help save Michigan from a governor that wants to ban chocolate?
Serving in Iraq at the very beginning, and other places, my overly general impression was a population that was indifferent to any prospects of liberty. Apparently, chocolate has been hard to come by in those places for many thousands of years - from their point of view, why should they care?
Societies that have known real liberty understand that the freedom to choose, but limiting the choices, isn't really freedom, and it certainly isn't liberty. Where you get food from, what stores you can go to, the items you can buy, and now even your ability to provide for yourself (Michigan) - all has been controlled, or attempted to control, in these lockdowns. For too many people people though, this is just the same as every other day for the entirety of their history. They are allowed to not care, and have gotten very used to it.

[Surpmil]

Indeed, and more than that: those who have had liberty can have it trained out of them until their descendants forget what it was.

There is a fundamental incompatibility between Islam and liberty which can never be resolved; one of them must disappear.

If present trends continue, we know which it will be.

[ssgross]

which can never be resolved

I wouldn't go that far...Plenty of historical examples of "eventual" resolution - Holy Roman Empire's domination of Europe, crusades, Henry VIII's protestant reformation and subsequent persecution of catholics, Hindu caste system in more modern times has clearly improved in the direction of liberty. Arguably the religion is the same as it always was...the underlying books and beliefs haven't changed - even the doctrine. The way we "project" onto others has changed and allowed "resolution". What has evolved, or perhaps "resolved" is that we stop caring so much that everyone else believes differently, and they stop caring how you believe. This is the real miracle of religious freedom in the US experiment.
The only "incompatibility" with liberty is the idea that everyone has to believe/accept the same things - and that is not just confined to religion - it happens politically too.

I'll be the glass half full guy and say that Liberty will always win in the end - it just may take a few more thousand years and many more wars in between.
Hopefully by discussing historical perspectives we aren't breaking the rules of this forum - no religion or politics discussion allowed. Let's not get too deep in this and spoil the tranquil utopia of milsurps!

[Ovidio]

Here, we’re being told, day after day, that during the Christmas ane New Year holidays we’ll be kept buttoned up more and more. Every day some government or virologist jackass tells us that we will mot be allowed to do this, that, that other thing...
Jesus can come to th3 world a few hours earlier, that is not going to hurt anybody, you’ll notbe allowed out of your community, curfew from 10 PM...no...from 8 PM. Let’s see...
I must say that the greatest disappointment to me is that I feel alone. Until Covid, lots of people were talking about freedom, democracy, equality...
Now that we’re put in jail against all rules set by our constitution, no one talks...
I’m getting restless...
I have trouble sleeping.
I see cops and I cringe.
That is not right...

[Aragorn243]

"There is a fundamental incompatibility between Islam and liberty which can never be resolved; one of them must disappear"

Not exactly. Iran was once a very enlightened nations, part of the world. Egypt, Syria, Jordan all have had various levels of freedom.

It's when religious zealots gain control that the conflict begins. Granted true Islam is what the zealots want and the type that allowed freedom is an extremely watered down version of it but it can be done. What I don't understand is how all these people so willingly give up that freedom for a very oppressive religion. Turkey is going the wrong way.

But then look at us. Our governor now provided us with a website so we can report our neighbors, our businesses, etc for not following his unconstitutional dictates and people quite happily are willing to do so. They talk out of both sides of their mouths and now lie with impunity and the lies are quite obvious lies.

[Surpmil]

"There is a fundamental incompatibility between Islam and liberty which can never be resolved; one of them must disappear"

Not exactly. Iran was once a very enlightened nations, part of the world. Egypt, Syria, Jordan all have had various levels of freedom.

It's when religious zealots gain control that the conflict begins. Granted true Islam is what the zealots want and the type that allowed freedom is an extremely watered down version of it but it can be done. What I don't understand is how all these people so willingly give up that freedom for a very oppressive religion. Turkey is going the wrong way.

But then look at us. Our governor now provided us with a website so we can report our neighbors, our businesses, etc for not following his unconstitutional dictates and people quite happily are willing to do so. They talk out of both sides of their mouths and now lie with impunity and the lies are quite obvious lies.

A third of India is controlled by Maoist rebels today; mostly from the have-not castes. Despite the huge birth rate, what future does Hinduism have against the Chinese steamroller with a fifth column of that size?

Iran? We know what brought Pahlavi to power and kept him there as the wellspring of islamic radicalism, don't we?

Fundamentally, most of our so-called leaders in the last 50 odd years are at best fools, and at worst outright criminals and the proportion of the latter increases steadily. Ignorance and poverty of outlook is their commonality. All societies reach a tipping point; we're very close. Funny, but fundamentally it's a moral problem.

Those who missed what Gen. Smedley Butler said about his contacts with power, might have caught what Gen. Wesley Clark said. Then again, maybe not!

The reality is stark, few want to face it. Thereby guaranteeing that we will face it, on the least favourable terms.

Islam has some friends in the west, and you'd be surprised how many and who. The blind leading the blind again. Their children and grandchildren will pay the price.

But let's distract ourselves while we can!