My 2nd Krag

[ssgross]

Well, poopy. My most fortunate luck so far with this stock just ran out.

First, in fitting the lower band. After squaring edge of the band's stop, and sliding it down, I saw the the forend is 10 thous. wide. This at least is an easy fix. Easy peasy right? wrong. I slid the band down only to find out that there is a gap underneath. Measuring, I found the distance from top woodline to bottom at the location of the band is short, 30 thous. compared to my original stock. It gets worse. With the inside edges of the band flush to the top wood, there is a gap between band and metal. After some reading (1941 the modern gunsmith James Howe), I've concluded the band should make contact with the barrel, but not bind it. So, only one thing to do...Sand down the top wood line to allow the band to ride lower. But, this transfers the gap above the barrel to the bottom. In the end, the gap at the bottom is...you guessed it 30 thous., and quite noticeable. For now, I made a shim out of 2 strips of nylon felt left over from doing the inside of my safe. After a beer to calm my disappointment, I'm thinking before I'm fully done, I will use a hand plane to get a few good, even shavings from the middle of the stock where he left it square, and "graft" some strips onto the underside to make a permanent shim for the band. I'll say something to the maker when I'm all done. I have a feeling this won't be my last krag.

Lower band problem solved...on to the top band. Distance from top to bottom is short again, but only by 10 thous., and also wide by 10 thous. Easy peasy keep working the sides with a file until it goes all the way down with a push of a hand, but doesn't come back off without some light woodpecker taps from a mallet. Now, check with the action in place. No go. Why oh why? The criterion barrel is fat where the band goes...11 thous. wider than the originals. In fact, after dozens of measurements along the length, the only spots that seem to agree with the original barrels is the shank, and the area around the rear sight.
I have 2 options then, shoe-shine sand my barrel till my arms fall off and re-blue it, or open up band. I think I'll be opening up the band. My idea is to wrap my barrel cellophane tape to protect it, and then use a piece of thin 2-sided tape to get a piece of sandpaper to stay in place on the upper half of where the band needs to fit. Put the band on and rock it side-to-side until the barrel perfectly in the band's channel like it's supposed to. After that, I'll check the final depth of the muzzle bed...just like the rear band, we want it to make contact with the barrel, but not bind it.

...and here I thought I might be able to shoot it this weekend before finish-profiling the outside, sanding staining, etc. sad face.

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[browningautorifle]

I try not to do too much stock work, it takes patience which I no longer have...

[ssgross]

it takes patience which I no longer have

I treat it as therapy
But my patience is being tried on this one. Whenever I'm not feeling patient enough, I don't bother trying and go to something else. Not being in a good positive mood is the quickest way to f&*^ it up!
I am bummed I will have to shim the lower band. It's far too late now to complain to the maker, and he only had the one on hand with no immediate hurry to make more unless I wanted a few. He's good people that would likely appreciate the feedback since he made the master pattern.
The bottom stop for the upper band is also not low enough. The metal overhangs the wood by ~1/8.

[browningautorifle]

Whenever I'm not feeling patient enough, I don't bother trying and go to something else.

I have to do that too. A classic example is a set of table knives I made handles for. I made them from a light colored hardwood and simply drilled and epoxied the tang in place. Now to shape them, oval and just the size of the base of the blade. I should do them one at a time for best result, one each day until done. I didn't and of course didn't get the perfect results. I get bored and want to be done so the end result is obvious.

[ssgross]

I get bored and want to be done so the end result is obvious.

The key there is to maintain a backlog of things that equally interesting as when you started. Then again by this method success means you always have a long list of things not done, or partway done. There is an optimum number of things to have going on at once, and unfortunately it takes a lifetime to calculate it

I suppose no matter what, I'll be happy with this krag so long as it shoots well. Somewhere Howe says that acceptable accuracy to leave the factory would have been in the range of 2.5 - 3.5 inch at 200 meters. If I can't tune it to this, I'll sell it, likely at a loss, and let it enjoy life as someone else's plaything....knock on wood. It's going to turn out fabulous, and I'll grin ear to ear with pride at pulling it off all on my own.

[ssgross]

So, over lunch I cut back the 1/8 or so shoulder for the front band, so it sits flush with the tip of the forend. This also made the wood at the shoulder sit just a tad proud of metal, giving me room for scuff or two to flush in final sanding.

Next, I worked on the band. Using my original Krag (which shoots lights out so must be set up right!), with the band screw loosened, the band slides on easy till the last 1/2 inch, but a gentle push sends it the rest of the way. It doesn't come off by hand very easy unless you really tug on it followed by a nasty cut on your hand from the front sight blade. But, the lightest of taps with a plastic punch pops it loose. The barrel contacts the top of the band, and with a dab of grease between the feel going on and off is the same with or without the barrel under the band. Just like Howe says...the band makes contact with the barrel but does not bind.

So, after moving the shoulder back, I wiped the inside of the band with wd-40, and with no barrel under it tapped it all the way down. Taking it back off shows the high spots without making a mess of black. I kept scuffing these down until it went on and off with the exact same feel as my original.

Now to fit it to the barrel...remember criterion made their barrels .011 fat in this area. Well, I marked off the location, taped on a piece of 150 paper, placed the band over it and rocked it back and forth till my hands fell off.
Attachment 120356
Once the sides of the band started to open up over the barrel, I switched to using the old barrel...the area just behind the front sight, with a piece of sandpaper over it, gives the exact same dimensions as I was looking for with my barrel. It took forever, but it worked. A final polish with finer papers, and a check shows my barrel now fits into the top of the band.

Next, fit all three...wood band and barrel together. My band slides on only half way before it binds. I gently lowered the muzzle bed until the band went on and off with the same feel as the original...it's perfect.

Lesson learned...I should have waited to blue everything. The band will need to be blued again from all the rocking I did to open its channel. abrasive on the paper worked its way into my hands and wore down the bluing. Oh well.

Last step will be to tighten the action screws in, and do one last check for binding in the channel, so all lays in nice and flat from receiver flat to muzzle. Then we are done fitting, and I can work on the outside...and of course that handgaurd Suppose I could shoot it now with the stock fitted but still ugly...but that would likely jinx it all.

[browningautorifle]

Lesson learned...I should have waited to blue everything

That's what I was told too and if I'd thought of it I'd have mentioned it. Do all the fitting work before blue, only makes sense. Now we remember...

[ssgross]

I rasped/filed/sanded down the square part of the stock that was left. I started with a bench plane, and got a bowl full of nice wide chips. I need to make a shim with these under the rear band, as there wasn't enough material there after fitting the band to the barrel. I was going to try soaking them in water to get them pliable, then laminate them together with wood glue, cut to shape, and wrap around the underside of where the band goes. Hold it in place with a rubber band and let it dry, then blend it all in with a file. Won't see it under the bottom of the band.

Another tough decision...grasping grooves. The maker left an index mark where they start/stop. I can sand those out and leave it without, or I can lay it out using the index mark, then either a spoon chisel and do it by hand, or I think a 5/8 box cove bit would get it close enough as long as I could keep it straight. I'm leaning doing it them by hand. but need to build a cradle first.

[ssgross]

I finally got back to this one. Too bad all the pictures were gone.

I bought a second stock from Jesse at https://www.prestigiouswoodstocks.com. The wood was certainly beautiful - walnut is lightly marbled on the butt, swooping up through the wrist, then straight down the forend - as if the tree grew that way because it knew it would go on a krag someday. However, there was no tolerance under the receiver, under or around the tang, to balance the action. Out of the box, I had to make a shim of 0.100 to go under the tang. The area around the forward screw is also to low. Out of the box, I'll have to file a couple threads off my front screw as it bottoms out in the receiver. I emailed Jesse, and he was kind enough to correspond with me, and seemed interested in improving his pattern. I think he uses a CNC setup, instead of a manual duplicator like others. I did my best to level out under the receiver without messing with the area around the front screw. This was a few months ago. I got frustrated I wasn't getting a perfect fit, and wouldn't be able to no matter what. Two stocks now, same problem. Not enough material around the action to get even bedding under the tang, under receiver, and at the muzzle. So I quit and moved on to other things to let my confidence build up again.
This brings us to this long weekend. I decided I would finish it - regardless of the fit. Jesse's stock was too beautiful to give up. And his handgaurd is finished - except for rivets and bands. I accomplished the following:
1) The recoil area was a bit chewed up with tool marks, but I evened that out easy enough without setting the action back too much. The bolt recess was similar, so I chiseled it smooth.
2) I had no choice. With the front screw tight, the muzzle is off the forend by over 1/2". If I shimmed under the tang or receiver to fix it, the top of the tang would sit proud of the wood by over 1/4". And as I said, I have no wood under the receiver or tang to balance it. So, I fit the front band to the stock. I had almost 1/4" of material to remove. This allowed me to get measurements for where the lower band would sit. This has to be fit to the stock AND barrel.
3) The lower band only slid on maybe an inch from the muzzle before it stopped. The forend of this stock was not tapered to the muzzle like my original. It was spot on with no tolerance where the band sits, but fatter at the muzzle area. And, the top of the sides are not curved slightly inward like they should be. So, I spent all day Sunday re-profiling the forend to get the lower band to slide down.
4) Without removing any material from the underside where the lower band sits, or the top wall, I slid the band down to it's shoulder. Before fixing the forend, I measured and calculated that I would have 5 thous. gap above the barrel. Well, I was close. the gap was 10 thous. Easy enough. I sanded a few dozen long, even strokes across the top and all is good.
5) I next fit the butt plate. Not much to do. to get it to sit flat. It was spot on -- too perfect. There is NO room for sanding around the edges, especially around the toe.
6) I tightened the barrel on all the way (some parts of krag stock fitting are way easier with the barrel off) - double checked headspace and extractor cut. I think I mentioned before that the criterion barrel's extractor cut is slightly off. Tightened until the sights are level with the top of the receiver, the witness marks line up PERFECT, but the extractor cut is slightly off. It's not too far off, but just enough to make the extractor stick when opening the bolt. Lapping the side of the extractor claw made it work. Any worse and I would have had to take the barrel off to file the extractor groove wider.
7) Today, I made a shim to go under the tang, glued it in, chased the rear screw hole after it dried, then used chisels to hide it. I tested my wife and asked her to look it over and find where I glued in a repair piece. She couldn't find it.
8) Then, starting at the forend, I began my final sanding. Last place to sand was underside of the butt. That's when I noticed that there was no inletting for the rear swivel! Well, I traced it out and did it by hand with an exacto knife and hand chisels. First time doing anything like that from scratch! looks perfect and sharp.
9) doing the rear swivel reminded me I need to drill for the lower band retaining pin. Need to make a pin out of a nail. I have brass or steel. I think steel is correct. This will have to wait till next end, along with inletting the handguard for the sight.

I'm debating on how to finish the wood. It's so nice, I think I will do a red-oil and sand it in to close the grain. I'll try to get some progress pictures out this week.

[ssgross]

Since all the pictures were lost, I went digging to recover some of them. here is were it all started last spring - just an old sewer pipe and a paper weight (receiver)

I collected all the missing parts, including a beautiful NOS bolt with fine NOS case hardened, peacock blue extractor. While I sourced a stock, I learned to slow rust blue for the first time, practicing first on some old parts I had lying around then refininishing all my parts. The rear sight came out especially nice. I think it was butlersrangers who said somewhere on this forum that the ladders originally came in the white. Very sharp.


Stock fitting woes then commenced. I bought a pretty nice replacement stock. I was able to fit the receiver very well, but there was not enough meat on the forend and the lower band left a large gap underneath. I set it aside for a couple months to chew on my next move, considering gluing in more wood under the band and blending it best I could. Then heard here on milsurps that https://www.prestigiouswoodstocks.com started making full length krag stocks. I bought one. See my last post about fitting it last weekend. I finished the details tonight. The handgaurd required little work to fit. It's much thinner than the one on my original krag. It didn't have the opening for my rear sight, so I did that - came out nice and tight. I measured fore and aft, marked a centerline by putting a dab of black on the top of my calipers, and gently touched them to the handgaurd, then removed the build of the material with a 5/8 forester bit. I then set the sight on it, and outlined with pencil and rough cut with my dremmel. I lastly carefully filed the corners square, and worked it open till the sight dropped in on the barrel through the wood. All that is left now is the clips and rivets.
I did have another handgaurd I bought from https://www.shop.macongunstocks.com/...-Handguard.htm. It came looking like a block of wood that someone dug out with a spoon. I finished carving it last night. It already had a rough opening for the rear sight, which was too long by over 1/4". I'll use it to practice riveting clips.

So here is where we are now. I'm pleased.

As you can see, not much meet on the hand guard - windage lever is no where near close to the top of the wood. Look at how the grain turns and flows up through the wrist, then curves again to flow down the forend!

EDIT: Inspected my original. Handgaurd rivets are blued steel, 1/4" flat heads, 1/4" long. I found these https://www.ebay.com/itm/35333891076...gAAOSw8RZaYnZ0. Hard part will be peening the inside. Now I need to locate appropriate steel for the clip. I know it is spring steel, which I can't seem to find. I've read of folks using steel pallet banding. Seems though this is only available in big rolls. Anyone have a small piece they might send me?