+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 50

Thread: wartime Russian wood finish

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #11
    FREE MEMBER
    NO Posting or PM's Allowed
    Schnitzelmahn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Last On
    02-06-2017 @ 12:46 AM
    Location
    Ottawa, ont. CANADA
    Posts
    25
    Local Date
    10-31-2024
    Local Time
    05:46 PM
    Thread Starter
    Seems to be the issue with the soviets - we can never find historic documents detailing what was used

    by oil finish you guys mean linseed right? it would explain the variation in colour seen in the two rifles in my first post - linseed darkens with age and holds onto dirt and crap. the front rifle looks very minty. Reminds me of a number of pictures of Germanicon troops carrying mausers (which were typicaly treated with linseed) of different shades in the same photograph.

    perhaps the wartime finish is the dark spots one sees on your typical refurb - looks almost as though the Russians did a **** job removing the original finish then slapped some crap over it.... another sign of this is that the dark spots are most present in the low spots - like the finger groves on the forearm....anybody have any idea what the dark spots could be from?
    again stealing pics from wikipedia :P

    anybody got any photos from russian museums? I'm sure they dont have refurbs in their collections

  2. # ADS
    Friends and Sponsors
    Join Date
    October 2006
    Location
    Milsurps.Com
    Posts
    All Threads
    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  3. #12
    Legacy Member mdarnell19's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Last On
    02-12-2024 @ 10:09 PM
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    34
    Local Date
    10-31-2024
    Local Time
    06:46 PM
    The Russians never used the shellac you see on post war refurbished rifles during the war. Shellac is a cheap finish that wears off almost immediately. And during WWII the Russians had a shortage of shellac and would not waste it on rifles.

    On SVTs they used a lacquer. A very nice coating. Here is a factory original rifle. This rifle is dated 1941. As has been mentioned, in 1942 things were very desperate and many rifles probable left the factory with little or no finish.

    Attachment 74493Attachment 74492

    Here is a picture of a factory original M38 dated 1942. This is not a Finn capture. It also has no shellac.

    Attachment 74495Attachment 74494

    Here is a factory original 1943 M91/30. Notice the cross sanding much like the 1942 M38

    Attachment 74496

    And here is a battle worn M91/30 PU sniper. This is a bring back from either WWII or Korea.

    Attachment 74499

    All these rifles are 100% Factory original matching. Hope this helps.

  4. The Following 4 Members Say Thank You to mdarnell19 For This Useful Post:


  5. Avoid Ads - Become a Contributing Member - Click HERE
  6. #13

  7. The Following 3 Members Say Thank You to mdarnell19 For This Useful Post:


  8. #14
    FREE MEMBER
    NO Posting or PM's Allowed
    Schnitzelmahn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Last On
    02-06-2017 @ 12:46 AM
    Location
    Ottawa, ont. CANADA
    Posts
    25
    Local Date
    10-31-2024
    Local Time
    05:46 PM
    Thread Starter
    thanks mdarnell19, excellent pics! I saw a '41 tula svt at the gun shop just like yours, i might pick it up - i might go about restoring it depending on if shellac has been applied and strip the plum colour from the bolt

    the finish on your tula svt looks identical very close to other tula rifles i otherwise thought had been shellac.... dare i say it looks identical to my refurbed 1950 tula sks what is the real difference between laquer and shellac?

    are the izhevsk rifles finished with linseed or some other oil?

  9. #15
    Legacy Member mdarnell19's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Last On
    02-12-2024 @ 10:09 PM
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    34
    Local Date
    10-31-2024
    Local Time
    06:46 PM
    Never strip a SVT bolt of it's blue finish. By late 1941 Tula was bluing their bolts. War time blue looks like a cherry red while post war is purple.

    I only collect war time Russianicon weapons but I do not believe in messing with a post war refurbished rifle. Why do it? Even if you polish the bolt and strip the shellac off you still have a refurbished rifle. And by doing so your rifle does not look factory original. But now it has been messed with and has zero collectors value. And there are still those who collect refurbished rifles. Just except it for what it is, leave it alone, enjoy it and find a factory original rifle.

  10. Thank You to mdarnell19 For This Useful Post:


  11. #16
    Legacy Member Sentryduty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Last On
    02-07-2022 @ 11:09 AM
    Location
    Edmonton, AB, Canada
    Posts
    1,057
    Real Name
    Darren
    Local Date
    10-31-2024
    Local Time
    03:46 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Flying10uk View Post
    develop a colour of their own in use or to put it another way they wouldn't stay near white for long
    Funny you mention it that way, many of the 1940-44 produced Sovieticon rifles I have stripped retain a dark discoloration around the end of the butt, areas the wrist and forearm grasping groove, in other words, where the rifle would contact the ground at rest, and where a soldier would place their dirty hands during use.

    It does suggest the original finish was very not very durable or possibly uncoated prior to refurbishment.
    - Darren
    1 PL West Nova Scotia Regiment 2000-2003
    1 BN Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry 2003-2013

  12. #17
    FREE MEMBER
    NO Posting or PM's Allowed
    Schnitzelmahn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Last On
    02-06-2017 @ 12:46 AM
    Location
    Ottawa, ont. CANADA
    Posts
    25
    Local Date
    10-31-2024
    Local Time
    05:46 PM
    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by mdarnell19 View Post
    Never strip a SVT bolt of it's blue finish. By late 1941 Tula was bluing their bolts. War time blue looks like a cherry red while post war is purple.

    I only collect war time Russianicon weapons but I do not believe in messing with a post war refurbished rifle. Why do it? Even if you polish the bolt and strip the shellac off you still have a refurbished rifle. And by doing so your rifle does not look factory original. But now it has been messed with and has zero collectors value. And there are still those who collect refurbished rifles. Just except it for what it is, leave it alone, enjoy it and find a factory original rifle.
    Personal preference, i like my guns to looks original without having to pay the cost for a non-refurb. plus there are plenty of refurbed rifles, and arguing that they have history is the same as arguing that bubba's sporter job has history - it very well could, but not in the context of the 2nd world war. plus for historical reenacting if you restore a refurb, sporter, or whatever, you get a rifle that is historically accurate without being overly concerned about carrying it in the field.

    ---------- Post added at 02:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:35 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sentryduty View Post
    Funny you mention it that way, many of the 1940-44 produced Soviet rifles I have stripped retain a dark discoloration around the end of the butt, areas the wrist and forearm grasping groove, in other words, where the rifle would contact the ground at rest, and where a soldier would place their dirty hands during use.

    It does suggest the original finish was very not very durable or possibly uncoated prior to refurbishment.
    could have been linseed oilicon, it tends to hold onto dirt since it doesnt seal the wood.....

  13. #18
    Contributing Member Flying10uk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Last On
    08-11-2024 @ 10:05 PM
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    5,244
    Local Date
    10-31-2024
    Local Time
    11:46 PM
    I think that it is important that we as collectors, between us, retain at least some Sovieticon rifles which have not been fully refurbished purely as an historical record if nothing else. The vast majority in Soviet hands at the end of the war appear to have been either scrapped or refurbished. I strongly suspect that the reason for the Soviet refurbishment of its own and captured weapons wasn't just to have a vast store of weapons to hand in case the West suddenly decided to invade but at least in part to provide employment to it's people.

    I have heard it suggested that the Germans in WW2 achieved the dark brown stain seen on some K98icon rifle stocks by soaking the stocks in the used engine oil which had been drained from the sumps of diesel engines. There is probably no way of finding out if this was definitely done but would be a plausible explanation why some laminated K98 stocks are a dark brown colour while others are a blonde.

  14. #19
    FREE MEMBER
    NO Posting or PM's Allowed
    Schnitzelmahn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Last On
    02-06-2017 @ 12:46 AM
    Location
    Ottawa, ont. CANADA
    Posts
    25
    Local Date
    10-31-2024
    Local Time
    05:46 PM
    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by Flying10uk View Post
    I think that it is important that we as collectors, between us, retain at least some Sovieticon rifles which have not been fully refurbished purely as an historical record if nothing else. The vast majority in Soviet hands at the end of the war appear to have been either scrapped or refurbished. I strongly suspect that the reason for the Soviet refurbishment of its own and captured weapons wasn't just to have a vast store of weapons to hand in case the West suddenly decided to invade but at least in part to provide employment to it's people.

    I have heard it suggested that the Germans in WW2 achieved the dark brown stain seen on some K98icon rifle stocks by soaking the stocks in the used engine oil which had been drained from the sumps of diesel engines. There is probably no way of finding out if this was definitely done but would be a plausible explanation why some laminated K98 stocks are a dark brown colour while others are a blonde.
    they were issued bare (a good example is the one on the k98 wiki page in the swedish army museum, it was donated by nazi germany in 1940) and linseed oilicon was applied by the soldiers once issued and was part of a soldiers maintenance of the rifle (Care of Weapons / der Erste Zug). but thats another topic :P

  15. #20
    Contributing Member Flying10uk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Last On
    08-11-2024 @ 10:05 PM
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    5,244
    Local Date
    10-31-2024
    Local Time
    11:46 PM
    There must be some explanation for the vast difference in colour between the light blonde laminated K98icon stocks and the dark brown laminated K98 stocks. Either different woods were used in the production of the laminated stocks or the stocks were stained by some sort of method after production. This staining could have occurred at the production stage or after issue of the rifle. If the German Army/soldier used the used Diesel engine sump oil method to stain the rifle stocks I believe it highly likely that the Russianicon soldier may have copied the practice.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Russian Red Wood Dye Recipes?
    By Vincent in forum Soviet Bloc Rifles
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 05-06-2016, 10:38 AM
  2. Choosing an oil finish for a wood stock
    By RobD in forum The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 12-24-2015, 11:58 AM
  3. Odd finish on Russian TT-33
    By Milsurp Collector in forum Other Military Service Pistols and Revolvers
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-07-2012, 08:28 PM
  4. Lithgow wood finish
    By madcratebuilder in forum The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 06-06-2012, 06:05 PM
  5. Mauser 96 original wood finish
    By daveboy in forum The Restorer's Corner
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-15-2009, 09:21 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts