Stock Finishing

[MJ1]

If the military stopped using BLO in the 1930's why would BLO have been issued in new cans in the mid 1960's? I must have lathered up 2K of M1's, Carbines, M1A1 .45's and M14's in '67 alone. I hope the PM's didn't cause me to ruin a lot of wood.

....MJ...

[45B20]

MJ1
Do you specify remember the can saying “Oil Linseed, Boiled”???

As to your question as to the use of Tung Oil by the US Military..
From:
BROPHY’s
“The Springfield Armory 1890-1948”

Annual Report 1934, pg.272
Under Research and Development
1933-25 “Test of Tung Oil as a Wood Preservative.”

Annual Report 1941, pg. 349
Under Developments
“Gunstocks
Through the cooperative effort of the Pratt & Lambert Company of Buffalo, New York, a China-wood oil compound as a substitute of the raw linseed oil used in treating wooden rifle components has been developed for the purpose of reducing the tendency such parts have for smoking and sweating at high firing temperatures. In compliance with O.C.M. instructions, 1000 rifles assembled with hand guards and stocks treated with finish will be sent to the Using Arms for field test.”
My comment,, (O.C.M.=Ordnance Committee Meeting, it would have a minute number along with it).

Annual Report 1942, pg 356
Under Developments
“Miscellaneous---
The china wood oil compound developed in cooperation with the Pratt-Lambert Company for finishing
Stocks and hand guards has been approved as standard and in now in use at the Armory.”

I can find nothing more about the use or discontinuation of Tung (china) Oil at the Armory in this book.
Please note that the statement on pg. 356 appears to apply only to Springfield. I would think (opinion only) that there is a possibly, that while Tung was in use at Springfield it could have be used on all Small Arms built or rebuilt at the Armory, there again it could have only been use on the M1. Questions like these and for the GCA or the likes of Mr. Beard

As I understand (no real documentation at hand) the use of Tung Oil was discontinued before the end of the War. Availably,, cost ,, causes skin rash,, use in jet fuel,, I do not know. I am told that the use of Tung was restarted in later production, however at all M1 manufactures?? or just Springfield?? Again,, I do not know. I do know that the later Overhaul Standards given for the M1 and M14 allowed the use of Tung.

But I do know, that, (other than the Instructions for Overhaul of the M1&14, printed in the early 60s),, NO US Military publications,, such as, Instructions to Bidders, TR, TM, FM, PS Mags. or Rebuild Instructions covering the M1903 series (and I think I have them all) ever called for any thing other than Raw linseed oil be applied to the wood. This also applies to the M1 Rifle and M1/2 Carbine and the M14. Exception for the M1 and 14,, would be the wood on ‘Match’ Rifles, (dunkem in spar varnish or what ever super sealem concoction was in vogue)

45B20

[MJ1]

I don't remember what the cans said after 43 years but the instructors in school called it linseed oil. It was always refered to as BLO but could have been tung. They also went way into getting it on every surface even inside the storage holes in the butt and inside the stock. I have seen the rags seff ignite. Always fun. But in the end we believed it was BLO and I replaced more than a few M14 stocks that where chared inside and smoked one my self one night along with a barrel. I was just asking if I was wrong all these years and also if the PM's I was always up dating where wrong too. If so I screwed up over a ton of rifles. Good luck for me I seldom saw the end users of the .30 M2's and Thompson guns I soaked in the stuff what ever it was.

[45B20]

MJ1
I would strongly suspect it was Raw. Were you a company armour/armor or did you work in a depot???

I was a Small Arms Repairman (gun plummer) while in Viet Nam I was an adviser to some of the RF/PFs in Bin Din province, With one of these groups I notice a very distinct odor from their weapons ’room’. I asked what they were using on the wood, the individual who thought he was in charge said it was oil (pronounce eril), then I asked what kind of oil?? Someone ran off for a minute, and returned with the can the oil came from. It was certainly oil, but Vegetable Oil. Given the problem these people had in getting supplies and our limited supplies. I told them to keep using the Vegetable Oil on the wood,,, a little bit at a time and to wipe it down, but to remember to use the 20wt motor and GAA on the metal parts. I was mixing JP-4 and red hydraulic oil (cherry juice) and giving them that to use as a bore cleaner.

I was part of a team that was rebuilding captured weapons and the wood on the AK & SkSs soaked up so much RLO we tried to obtain BLO and found it to be just about unobtainable, we ended up by soaking them in spar varnish..

One more thing on the Springfield Armory use of Tung Oil, note the book states “compound”, I sure would like to know what made up that “compound"?????

45B20

[Johnny Peppers]

I have a friend that went through USMC basic about 1959/60, and he distinctly remembered being issued raw linseed oil to use on his M1 Rifle stock. He was terribly disappointed when he was issued an H&R, as he had always associated H&R with making cheap pistols.

[Dollar Bill]

Loy,
I certainly no expert. I just fininished re-finishing a 1903 with BLO and it came out great, but my understanding is that the "correct" way, as far as a true US military finish would require you to imerse the entire stock in BLO heated to a certain temp, then allowed to dry. Haven't read of anyone here actually doing that. Everything else is just a way to achieve a finish similar. Anyway, I'm in the process of finishing 2 CMP stocks. I've decided to go with Tom's 1/3 mix on the first. It's a combination of beeswax, BLO and turpentine. So far, I have one coat on, and it looks good. You can check out his website @ Home Page. HTH

[MJ1]

It very well could have been raw linseed oil. I had about the same job in Kontum. Not so much the Sov. stuff but WW2 US arms for the CIDG and PF's or Mung villages up higher along the border.

...MJ...

[P.W.Browning]

Actually Dollar, the original treatment was a heated immersion in Raw Linseed Oil or Pure Tung Oil, and I have done it.

The results I got were fantastic, simply great looking wood.

That being said, I found out through experimentation that I got identical results by heating a much smaller amount of oil, and brushing it on using a natural bristle brush. It saved the hassle of keeping and heating a few gallons of oil. Now I can do it with about a pint of oil.

I only used this method on new made, in-the-white stocks.

I really don't understand the almost emotional reaction against using the original treatments, Raw Linseed Oil or Pure Tung Oil.

Neither need to be thinned, just rub a small amount in by hand (about a teaspoon) for 10 to 15 minutes, rub it in enough to generate some heat, no need to cause blisters or anything. Let the stock rest for about 45 minutes, then wipe every drop you can off of with a paper towel. Give it a day to rest and do it again.

I think the problem people have with oil bleed is caused by two things. First overuse of whatever oil treatment they choose. I'm sure BLO is often slathered on unnecessarily heavy too, but since it dries to a candy shell, there is no bleed. Second, the oil bleed from most surplus stocks is due to cosmoline and 50 years of oil applied before you owned it seeping out, not so much from the few coats you (the new owner) applied. The new coats didn't help the problem, but certainly aren't the sole cause.

Remember BLO as you buy it today, is nothing like the heat polymerized linseed oil of 100 to 200 years ago. It's a modern consumer product primarily used to retard oxidation on garden equipment...just read the label. It is in no way related to the wood treatments specified by U.S. Ordnance. It's actually a nasty witches brew of all sorts of stuff you really don't need to expose yourself to. Raw Linseed Oil and Pure Tung Oil are not only appropriate, but so safe they can often be purchased as food grade.

-Patrick

[rondog]

So, where do you get these oils? I've kinda half-assed searched for BLO, RLO and TO at Home Depot, Lowes, and a couple unfinished furniture stores, but found nothing close.

[P.W.Browning]

I buy my Pure Tung Oil from the Real Milk Paint Company:

http://www.realmilkpaint.com/oil.html

You can usually find Raw linseed oil at independent or smaller hardware stores, the boxes don't carry it. It is more expensive, but I have also bought it from a health food store as Flaxseed Oil, its the same stuff.