Brass for old cartridges

[bearhunter]

Claven2 is absolutely right, the water quench method is only to refurbish fire/work hardened brass shoulders and necks. After brass is heated to soften it for forming, it should be reannealed with the water quench method. bearhunter

[Claven2]

LOL... I KNEW that mechanical engineering degree had to be good for something... SHOOTING!

[Andy]

I beg to differ. Steel and brass behave differently with respect to heat treatment. Quenching brass makes it safe to handle and can prevent heat from progressing too low down the cartridge, but does not affect its hardness. Commercial brass manufacturers air-cool their brass after annealing - no quenching there.

Check out this site: http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html Among other things, they state that:

"Annealing brass and suddenly quenching it in water will have no measurable effect on the brass."

[Claven2]

You're right in that quenching brass doesn't greatly affect the rockwell hardness, but it does improve flow characteristics and elasticity.

The air quench is nothing new, it's also used in mass production of cast bullets. Essentially cold high pressure air is used as the cooling medium. The medium is not important at all, so long as you get the requisite temperature drop vs. time relationship. Using water is probably the lowest-tech method and is therefore common.

To quote you listed article:

In order to make steel harder, it is heated to some temperature, and then cooled fairly rapidly, although this is not always the case. Brass, on the other hand, cannot be made harder by heating it--ever. Brass is always made softer by heating. [...] The only way brass can be made harder is to "work" it. That is, the brass must be bent, hammered, shaped or otherwise formed. [read: case sizing and firing the round]

Also important to note that while that article Ka-Ka, Poo-Poo's all over the traditional methods of annealing (I prefer the finger hold method dropped mouth-first into water for uniformity of cooling), the article is written by a benchrester trying to squeeze an extra mm of group size out of a 6mmBR at 1000 yards. In that case it's all about uniformity of brass, cases each weighed and rejected if out a tenth of a gram, etc.

For the hobbyist just trying to make sizing easier and to prolong brass life, traditional annealing is more than adequate IMHO. And the quench also is safer and saves time by minimizing the handloader's exposure to very hot metals

[John Sukey (Deceased)]

If you need it really soft, heath the case neck till it turns red and then let it air cool. It will be very soft now.

Form the case, trim, etc.

Now re-heat the case neck till it's red and then drop it in a bucket of water while still red hot. This will anneal the case to the proper hardness.

Alot of work, perhaps, but if you have trouble forming the cases, it will help.

Actualy quenching the barss works the opposite of quenching steel, it keeps the brass malleable. Air cooling does the opposite.

In any case buying the stuff from www.buffaloarms.com is better, as they do all the hard work and you only pay for good cases instead of mistakes.

[Rapidrob]

Bertram Brass has both the cases you need. Their site is under construction. I have used his brass from .310 Cadet- 450/577 with good results.

[OLD RSM]

Hi Guy's
There is a fellow who has .455 Webley $40.00 per 100 this winter.
Cheers
raynershine@sasktel.net

[John Sukey (Deceased)]

Got to disagree. heating the brass while standing the cases in an inch of water will soften the necks and tipping the brass over once it is heated will keep it that way. The bottom part of the case will remain hard.
As for finding brass. try Welcome To Buffalo Arms Co.
While the Kropatchek cases are formed from .348 Win brass, they will be shorter, and the rims will not be beveled correctly. (bolt won't close)
The ones from Buaffalo arms are done properly and the correct length. It's just not worth the hassle.

[desporterizer]

I got some from buffalo & they were formed from .348 & the base was not beveled

[smellie]

If you don't mind short cases, you can make both the Krop and the Gras rounds from 8x50R LEBEL.

It is available from Prvi Partizan, made in Uzice, Serbia.

You will want more bevel on the rims than Prvi Partizan supplies but, otherwise, it works okay. Be careful and watch your EXTRACTOR closely. If the base has enough bevel , no troubles.

Works.