Drilled bolt handles.

[bouletbill]

Ok , I suppose Indian rifles have a black hole ! I bet the mortar section were none too happy aswell . Didn't know we had a battalion in Vietnam . You say you had a Chinese foreman . . . . . uhhmmm ??? What side were you on ?

[Peter Laidler]

It's getting difficult Boulet.............. and it's too difficult to explain but in short, when I saw 'we' I mean the Australian Army where we had TWO battalions there and the Chinese forman was a forman at the Base Workshops in Malaya where we worked with Malay Army (who had Chinese amongst them) and anyone else's Army who was there such as the UK, Aust, NZ and some Fijians

[breakeyp]

Son, I have a couple of the Indian reworks with socket markings RFI and new serial numbers e.g. 00247. As some of the early large bolt hole FE rifles went to India, I can see them being broken up or rebuilt in the Indian rebuild programs. Anything goes with a rebuild program.

[Bearclaw]

Could these markings tell a bit more. serial No ......... (F) FTR this is located above the Savage No4 Mk1*.

Thanks for all your input guys

[Son]

Son, I have a couple of the Indian reworks with socket markings RFI and new serial numbers e.g. 00247. As some of the early large bolt hole FE rifles went to India, I can see them being broken up or rebuilt in the Indian rebuild programs. Anything goes with a rebuild program.

I conversed with Ian on the topic a few years ago... he'd come to the conclusion that there didn't seem to be any hard and fast rules where markings on Indian re-worked rifles were concerned... your own excellent collection probably contributed volumes to what is known... At the time IIRC, he was making one last effort to get access to India's records and visit the factories before the deadline he had on the last Lee Enfield edition. It really is the last "black hole" in the history of these rifles.

Bearclaw, I think the (F) FTR denotes a rebuild at Fazakerley... once again, waiting for one of the No4 gurus to come along...

[Peter Laidler]

There's no reason of course why a Fazakerley FTR'd rifle wasn't later sold to India and then went through the Indian FTR programme in the 60's and be marked twice or even 3 times unless it was linished clean

[Bearclaw]

I'[ve mentioned this before but at our HUGE Base workshops in Malaya, we made no difference between the bolts. No hole, a hole and a large hole, they all went on whatever needy rifle came up next. There were two variants of 'the hole' too. A deepish hole that was well chamfered and a shallowish hole. We also had a Chinese foreman called Mr Saw who was just an *** hole! - or was that Staff Sgt Beady............. He wouldn't let me have a Friday off to see my girlfriend Christine. Just because I hadn't ordered the 81mm Mortar spares for the Battalion in Vietnam!

Pete,

So if you had to replace a receiver say on a No5 would you put a No5 on, or a No4 as they are the same receiver. Or is this a thing that an armourer wouldn't do.

Myles

[Peter Laidler]

In the Briitish, Australian and NZ Army, we neither would nor could replace a receiver, or body as we called it. This part was what we identified as 'the master component' and although it carriued a part number, was never available through the Ordnance system. If the body failed, then the rifle was scrapped, as simply as that. In effect, the body WAS the rifle. A No5 body isn't the same as a No4 body but they'll both interchange easily enough. But further to that..................

However, what might happen is this. In the huge Base Workshops in the Far East, we used to undergo big 'crown agents' FTR programmes for the different Armies of the nations around the Pacific Rim plus the Malay and Singapore, Brunei Police etc etc....., you understand what I mean. This was because the UK were pulling out in 1969/70 and this would be the last chance of having their stockpiles rebuilt, on the house so to speak, before the Poms left! If 100 rifles came in to be repaired, then regardless of whether they were good, bad or just plain absoultely worn out, 100 totally rebuilt, 100% perfect FTR'd rifles would go out. Even if it meant using up our own Ordnance Stockpiles. With No5's, that most Police Forces and many Armies were still using, the same happened. If 200 came in from XY, then 200 went OUT, made up, if necessary from stockpiles we possessed or if bodies were worn out or stretched, they'd get No4 bodies if necessary. We had no shortage of spares for them. We also did many hundred NZ L2A3 Sterling SMG's and L4A4 LMG's too. Though for some strange reason, these were on a costed basis although I shouldn't think for one minute any money changed hands. And like the rifles, if, say, 180 LMG's came in, 180 brand new went out even if we'd scrapped 40 of them - made up from existing pooled Ordnance stockpiles. There was hundreds of millions of ££'s of Ordnance stockpiles there

Has that over-answered the question?

[bigduke6]

When you mention worn out or stretched bodies, just out of interest, what would you say a rough figure was for a stretched body out a 500 rifles?

[Peter Laidler]

To be honest Big Duke, I couldn't even hazzard a guess. The 'in-inspector' would test and gauge them (we'd work with him for the experience occasionally) and we'd jusy get the work to do. We did everything plus what he said on the job sheet.