First SMLE

[Dad]

Peter,
Yes, Tung oil makes it very difficult to take detail photos….. I agree with you that this buttstock extension seems to have been performed in a factory environment. If you examined and handled this item in person you would be astonished at the workmanship! The dovetail joint is almost invisible, all the holes are perfectly aligned and you will not feel any joints or steps in the bore for the oiler storage! The buttplate mating surface profile is identical to that of a normal buttstock. All in all a great bit of work!

I do believe that Mr. Stratton's statement of this being a "field response to the need for longer buttstocks" actually referred to the "battlefield need for longer buttstocks" and not as a "field" (local armorer} initiated and performed modification.

I'm glad that the ex apprentices enjoyed the pictures.

D.

[Kev G]

I have one of these butts too in my odds and sods bin.
A couple of questions -
How long is a long butt ?
On the end of the butt the number 10 has been stamped 3 times,does this signify anything ?

ATB Kevin

[Peter Laidler]

Thinking about these butts, you just can't extend a short butt to make it into a LONG butt............ well, you can but the angular geometry would be all up the creek. Let me explain......... If you just simply lengthen a butt by adding a piece, the butt plate will simply be too short to cover the new heel-to-toe length of the butt. The whole of the knuckle to toe angle will have to be altered (decreased) so that while inserting a lengthening piece, the heel to toe length remains the same. Likewise, if you shorten the butt, the heel to toe distance would be too short for the butt plate. And there is only one size of butt plate.

My updated view now is that these butts were a factory relaxation in standards and the whole wood blank was lengthened by using an extended piece THEN machined in the usual way. By virtue of the angular geometry, this wasn't a means of using up old/existing short or medium butts to make a longer butt because some of the extended butts are in fact short!

[bigduke6]

Peter,

The factory bit does make sense, but looking at the pic the butt disc and sling swivel, there is a difference in location, which to me would mean the butt disc and sling swivel recess were cut before rather than after the piece was fitted, ( I gather these would of been done on a jig so would be standard throughout regardless of the butt length and the rear being the datum) and as you pointed out this still leaves the question on the angle required for the butt plate.

[Peter Laidler]

Mmmmmmmmmm. Still thinking about that!

[Baal]

Is it possible wood has been taken off the top &/or bottom to keep the proper overall shape while still allowing the extension to fit the butt plate?

[Thunderbox]

And there is only one size of butt plate.

There might be just one part number, but there are at least two sizes of No1 butt plate. Quick look through my 40 or so spares shows about 5 which are about 1/4" shorter than the rest. This might be manufacturing variation, but I do notice a difference when it comes to fitting plates to short and long butts.

[tbonesmith]

It always blows me away when I consider the volume of timber, and good quality timber, that has been utilized in the manufacture of small arms. And it also impresses me as to the general quality of the workmanship across the board.
Just the difficulty in stocking up one of these **,000,000 SMLE's and No4's, and the fact that many of them when you buy them, between 55 and 100+ years old, are still well fitting, and good shooters.
Never seen those mod's but what a beautiful job, even at a factory.

[Thunderbox]

There might be just one part number, but there are at least two sizes of No1 butt plate. Quick look through my 40 or so spares shows about 5 which are about 1/4" shorter than the rest. This might be manufacturing variation, but I do notice a difference when it comes to fitting plates to short and long butts.

In fact -having just looked through about 80 buttplates loose and on rifles - I'll go out on a limb and observe that there appear to be at least THREE sizes of No1 buttplates, and that they appear to be in 1/8" increments.

Placing them between straight edges gives a rough indication, because there is some variation in the angle of the top tab on the butt plates:



Lining them up on the common screw hole locations, however, shows that the difference in length occurs in the tail:

[Peter Laidler]

Take it from me chaps, there's only one size of butt plate for the rifles. The size variations stem from the fact that in fitting butt plates, the wood of the butt MUST be proud of the actual butt plate. So when fitting a butt plate to a butt. brass is taken off from around the edges to fit it correctly. No fit, no pass the out inspection bay.

It follows that if a worn out old butt is scraped and made good for the umpteenth time in its life, then the butt plate will be adjusted to fit and each time, it gets shorter and shorter, narrower and narrower and................