I.R. Co. rear sight

[firstflabn]

Mt. Rainier was an export depot supporting the Seattle Port of Embarkation during WWII, so I would be surprised if they did any significant small arms rebuild until postwar. There were several fully equipped base commands in the Pacific Ocean Areas, so it wouldn't make much sense to ship an item several thousand miles to rebuild when the facilities existed much closer to the front. Salvage work could be done in the field by the division ordnance company on a high percentage of wrecked small arms. During wartime production it was arguably cheaper to make a new $35 carbine than to clean, pack, ship, track, unpack, evaluate, and rebuild various bits and pieces of used ones.

As an export depot it is possible they might have done simple repairs on small arms in the hands of troops staging for a Seattle departure. This would be mainly units going to Alaska - a very small percentage of the Pacific total. Besides, most of Ordnance Department effort was vehicles, ammo, and artillery.

[rdpinwa]

From what I have read, there were, at one time, 150,000 U.S. Troups in Alaska. Hardly a small percentage. The Aleutians were one of the first battle grounds with the Japanese and a lot of material was sent there. When many of the troups were drawn down from Alaska and sent to other duty stations, amy father being one of them, their material was shipped back to the states. When it was returned to the states for repair it went through MRO, which was responsible for much of the munitions and supplies that went to the Pacific. You may be correct, but at the time Ft. Lewis was not some small backwater supply depot. At it's hight there were over 150 buildings and warehouses and 2500 employees just working for MRO alone. With its easy access to railroads and the ports of Tacoma and Seattle, they were in a perfect position to play a major role in arming our troops in the Pacific.

I live right next to Ft. Lewis. So close, in fact, that when they fire those 155s and 105s at the range, and the weather is right, the concussion literally rattles the pictures on my wall. I had planned on going to the Ft. Lewis Museum this week, but my wife (who works on the base) tells me the Museum is currently closed for renovation, but should be opening again soon. It is my plan to go there and see if I can find further, more definative information as to the role that MRO played in WWII.

As for now, I respectfully agree to disagree.

[Bill Ricca]

The Carbine Club Newsletter (years ago) had an article on an Army Division in Europe, during the war, upgrading 5,000 carbines with Adjustable Sights. I do not remember the details.

[firstflabn]

The entire Alaskan District reached 148,167 troops in August '43 according to the Army's own published account. Before and after that month it never got within 9,000 of that - and fell rapidly. In August '43 the US Army had 1,919,7770 overseas - putting Alaska at about 7% and falling. Six months later the percentage had dropped to well below 4%.

Looking for mentions in the Army Green Books, it looks like MRO was overwhelmingly involved in vehicle maintenance and repair. With the extra need for road building/construction equipment for Alaska that makes sense. Also, according to the Green Books, a brief effort was made mid-war to combine maintenance operations at existing depots. This attempt flopped and almost all of the districts returned to specialized maintenance centers. MRO's expansion began in '42 when Ordnance took over responsibility for vehicles from QM.

WWII logistics are of particular interest to me, so if you run across any primary source material, I'd be pleased to hear of it. I have yet to see any breakdown on domestic depot operations anywhere showing wartime small arms repair activity. In 1945 MTO published a history of that theater's ordnance activities - it claimed repairs on over 2 million small arms. With those kind of numbers being worked overseas there's just not much left to work on stateside (until the postwar rebuilds). Probably take two or three days at the National Archives to paw through the end-of-war reports which were created for publication, but never got done. The Army Green Books are filled with citations to these reports.

[firstflabn]

Bill, that was CCNL #323; the unit was the 4th Armored Division. And, unlike some of the other mentions, this is from unit combat diaries, not personal reminiscences.

[rdpinwa]

firstflabn, I agree with you that it would seem to be nonsense to send weapons all the way from The South or Central Pacific all the way to Tacoma for a rebuild. From what I have been able to glean, and it's not much (one article), MRO mostly rebuild vehicles (according to the article 14,000 in 1943). If they indeed did refurbish small arms during the war, they probibly came from Alaska. I, being a research trained psychologist, am not satisfied with the reference source I have either. Thus, my desire to go to Ft. Lewis Museum and see what I can find. It is enough to make my head hurt. Will let you know what I find when the darn place reopens.

[BrianQ]

While the carbine may have been a war time refurbish done at Mt. Rainier it is also likely it was done at any time before 1963. Then again, the stock could have been on a carbine that went through Mt. Rainier mated to the action years later.

[firstflabn]

rd, I see we're more alike than different. I have gone through this same self-inflicted torture on a Benicia-stamped stock on an 03A3 I have. Benicia appears to have served the SF port of Embarkation similar to MRO's relationship to Seattle, so for me it's 'round up the usual suspects.' I came no closer to a final resolution there, but it was easier for me to find the same pages in the Army Green Books this time. Their treatment is, of course, more general than our question, so the hints are there, but no listing of which wartime depots specialized in small arms.

To expand on a comment of yesterday: the Green Books say that when ordnance inherited the vehicle maintenance/repair/rebuild duty from QM in '42 there were over a million vehicles involved. Bet that kept 'em busy for awhile. Assuming my conclusions are reasonably close to the actual circusmstances, I would not be surprised if both MRO and Benicia were equipped to do postwar rebuilds with gear that came back from overseas depots. I have seen a document showing either the Central Pacific Base Command or the SW Pacific Base Command (forget which) parkerized 3000 small arms in preparation for the Okinawa operation. If you can go that far you are doing one step more than swapping out defective parts. For all we know so far, MRO's postwar small arms program may have consisted of no more than part swapping. Bet we'll get closer to knowing with you interest and skills. Keep hunting.

[firstflabn]

Maybe you're 'closer' to your answer than I thought thirty minutes ago. Looks like the Seattle Branch of the National Archives has some records:

Record Group 338
Records of U.S. Army Commands
Administrative History
The present system of U.S. Army commands, which are organized both functionally and geographically, emerged from a War Department reorganization of February 28, 1942.
Records Description
Dates: 1940-63
Volume: 18 cubic feet
Records of the following depots:
Auburn General Depot, Auburn, Washington;
445th Quartermaster Depot, Ft. Lawton, Washington;
Madigan Army Hospital, Ft. Lewis, Washington;
Mt. Rainier Ordnance Depot, Tacoma, Washington;
Seattle Quartermaster Depot, Seattle, Washington;
Umatilla Depot, Hermiston, Oregon.
The records document quartermaster activities, and consist of general orders, organizational planning files, unit history files, and general and administrative correspondence files.

Doesn't say how much is WWII vs. postwar, but couldn't hurt to pay them a visit. It's confusing, but another reorganization put these depots under regional Service Commands; I believe Seattle was in the 9th.

Maybe you'll find info on postwar carbine rebuilds there. Please let me hear thru email or PM. Good luck and thanks.

[rdpinwa]

firstflabn, how are you finding this info? It has been driving me nuts trying to get info! You very well may be right with the 1963 issue. One thing is certain, I believe, is that this weapon was not an import and was most likely a first issue to the public from supplies warehoused in the states for years. I did find out the weapon was originally made in early July 1943 by Winchester, or course. It was rebuilt sometime at MRO, but when is the issue, I suppose. Do you have any information about where I would find a copy of the original MWO ORD B28 W-4 originally dated May 16, 1945?