"Jungle Carbine" - Origin

[Beerhunter]

What's wrong with calling a M-1917 a P17? Looks like it was in common use in WW2

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d44_1297271901

Because its wrong. Why continue to promulgate it just because (some) people did so in the past?

BTW here's another error in that newsreel: "Many of them made in America". They were ALL (P14 & M1917) made in America. Just because they were there doesn't make them right.

Thanks for the move though. It was great. Those newsreels always remind me of the first newsreel that I saw about the British Army's "new" Self-Loading Rile. That was riddled with errors too.

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[Peter Laidler]

In response to Amatikulu's querie, I dont suppose there's anything wrong as such. Certainly to me because they're one and the same thing. It's a personal thing really. On the other hand, just where do some people get the name 'KING' screw from? In that case, it's nothing of the sort. Who's ever heard of a SCREW, king, trigger guard?

[RobD]

Amatikulu, it's a very pedantic point: the Americans call rifles M... but the British called them P ...
Thus the British rifle (in .303) was the P14 and the similar US one (in .30-06) the M17 - even when used by the British.
Thus the M1 carbine would not become the P1 carbine when used by a British outfit.

[Beerhunter]

Amatikulu, it's a very pedantic point: the Americans call rifles M... but the British called them P ...
Thus the British rifle (in .303) was the P14 and the similar US one (in .30-06) the M17 - even when used by the British.
Thus the M1 carbine would not become the P1 carbine when used by a British outfit.

I'm sorry but I really can't agree.

For start the "P" designation had been dropped for donkey's years by the time of the M1 Carbine.

Second, at school we still had some Home Guard Manuals and the American Weapons were clearly designated M, for example we had a British M1917 Machine Gun Manual.

This may sound (or even be) pedantic but my point is that we know better and therefore we should use the correct terms. (That's the trouble with a Science & Engineering background.)

[SpikeDD]

I can see both points in the nomenclature debate and am not confused as to what rifle is being referred to, regardless of which is used. It's probably best to leave it down to if the rifle itself is offended by being called a "P17".

[bouletbill]

On the other hand, just where do some people get the name 'KING' screw from? In that case, it's nothing of the sort. Who's ever heard of a SCREW, king, trigger guard?

erm ... I think it's called a ***king screw, because it's gotta be that tight. (apologies if my imagination got the better of me).

[Amatikulu]

Gentlemen,

I posted the link to demonstrate that right and wrong depend on your background. I have always called a No.5 Mark 1 a Jungle Carbine and a M-1917 a P17. That's the name that was first used when I was introduced to the weapons. To the average person in the ex British Empire it was not wrong to call it a P17! I grew up in South Africa and if I called them by their correct nomenclature, no one would know what on earth I was referring to.

Anyway, I don't want to get into a lengthy discussion over names as I do know and recognize what the correct nomenclature is. However to me they will always be "jungle carbine" and "P17." And to the uninformed world, they will know what I'm talking about them when I use these names

[villiers]

Re the "king" screw: is it a "screw" or a bolt? I was told the a screw has a point, whereas a bolt is cylindrical.
Re the "jungle" carbine: the equivalent German rifle is the "Gebirgsjäger" Mauser 33/40. So the Hun uses a carbine in the mountains and the Brits in jungles. Not much chance of them meeting each other.

[tbonesmith]

Re the "king" screw: is it a "screw" or a bolt? I was told the a screw has a point, whereas a bolt is cylindrical.

I'd call it a "metal thread".

[Brit plumber]

I did a search for the defintion and this what goggle found

Bolts are defined as headed fasteners having external threads that meet an exacting, uniform bolt thread specification (such as M, MJ, UN, UNR, and UNJ) such that they can accept a nontapered nut. Screws are defined as headed, externally-threaded fasteners that do not meet the above definition of bolts.