Fake British No4 MK1 cruciform Bayonet?

[Peter Laidler]

After just having had a browse through Graham Priests 'bible', here's a couple of questions from someone who's totally clueless about bayonets.
Have you actually clecked the width of the socket to see/confirm whether the original markings have been ground off and re-marked. A micrometer should make it clearly obvious.

Can anyone identify that LX mark or is it a bit of corrosion/flaking? This looks like a manufacturers logo to me - and it ain't Singer!

Having refurbished several thousand bayonets and many other sorts of weaponry, it would be MOST unusual and to my knowledge/experience, totally unheard of, to actually REMOVE the old designation and then, after having invisibly done so, even leaving steel cast 'scabbing', RE-engrave the same designation.

The new designation looks pantograph engraved as opposed to being roll pressed on or stamped with the usual factory foot-press

Just my comments, but it definately doesn't look like the usual fake straight tapered point

Information

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[njn]

i bought a no4 mk1 bayonet with the same markings as this one today for 50p at a flea market
i will try and post some photos

[njn]

exactly the same mark as the bayonet that started the thread

[Aragorn243]

A few more have turned up since I found mine but they remain pretty rare.

[armourer]

I'm envious of your purchases!

Though I do have a No.4 MK.I in my collection, I paid about £150 for it a couple of years ago, and I was pleased with that!
I have about 20 odd spikes in my small collection and am always hoping to pick up a SMC marked MK.I, but the chances of that are about 1:67. Still I did find a couple of Korean War Canadian MK.II's with the CA mark, and these are actually much rarer 1.1000 chance of finding one, so anything is possible.
It just shows, it pays to be on the lookout!

Nice finds gents!

I also have a NO.9 with a number and letter K under the broad arrow mark. This is on an Enfield 1950 dated bayonet. I haven't as yet gotten round to asking Graham the meaning of it. The whole mark is itself under another broad arrow (WD) stamp.

[Aragorn243]

Peter,

It isn't LX it's 38 K under an "umbrella" or possibly 38TK. I've looked around for it but haven't found it. It does indeed look like a manufacturers logo. The "T" also resembles the government acceptance mark but doubt that is what it is with the 38 and K under it.

I don't think there is steel cast scabbing on it, that's black paint. It dos show evidence of being "ground" as there are parallel marks. I don't own a micrometer so can't help there.

The designation looks engraved but the logo looks stamped.

[Aragorn243]

I've been in contact with a few experts on these bayonets including Graham Priest, the author of the book, and all have stated that it is definitely a real cruciform bayonet. They are not well known and are likely more rare than the Singer marked bayonets. This is one of the original 75,000 Singer bayonets that was reworked in the 50's with the old markings removed. Graham did tell me that since he wrote the book in 2003 he's come across a dozen more of them. He also mentioned that the standard spike bayonets have also been reworked and remarked and are considered rare if found with the new markings. The emblem if I understand him right is the Enfield's "viewers code". Ralph Cobb from worldbayonets.com says the mark includes the broad arrow acceptance mark. He also explains that a viewers code is what we in the US would call an inspector's mark.

[LesterH]

I do not understand why these bayonets were reworked in the 1950's. The No9 bayonet was being made in UK up to about 1954 and was in plentyful supply. No need to rework a worthless spike bayonet!
From my own enquiries. RSAF Enfield and Singer were the manufacturers of the No4 Cruiciform bayonet. Any other maker or reworker I would not touch with a barge pole! Why pay hundreds of pounds for a remachined spike bayonet worth about £10 with a scabbard?
Any one who has reworked a round spike bayonet into a cruciform and then tries to sell it on for more than £10 is attempting to defraud a customer. We see quite a few of these fake cruiciform bayonets in the UK Militaria markets. RSAF inspection stampings are usually ED, F,S,B or (P) depending on the factory or subcontractor.

[Aragorn243]

Lester,

This isn't a reworked round spike bayonet into a cruciform, it is a SINGER cruciform bayonet reworked and remarked. Dimensions on this bayonet are correct for a cruciform, it is an original cruciform. I have no idea why they would decide to rework them but someone did. Possibly because they had old stocks that were dirty/damaged/rusty and they decided to rework them for export rather than toss them out.

As for the marking, I was just taking photos of some of my other bayonets and discovered my No9 Enfield bayonet has the same type mark only it is 98(broad arrow)C so it is evidently a correct Enfield inspectors mark.

[old-smithy]

These are real bayonets and very scarce. there are a lot of weird reworks out there, I have a dual seam 1907 scabbard that was reworked by Australia for Korena issue with both the locket and chape being phosphated and then put back with the original dual seam leather, since the parts are differnet this has been carfully done not to mix up the parts. Why when the double stithcd was out of service in the mid 20's ? I also have 1888 scabbards made in 1942 39 years after trhey were replaced with the 1903 and 1907 bayonets.