Anyone know a source for a Swiss 1914 pioneer bayonet?

[LesterH]

Aragorn243, just a suggestion. I note you live in the USA. The 1914 Pioneer bayonet for sale on JC Militarias site ( Stock number SR7115) is on sale for £245.00 inc UK postage and value added tax. As a USA export customer, he should supply you vat free. That would be approx 20% off. Postage to US would be expensive and would off set some of the vat savings.
In the UK militaria older than 1919 is considered antique. You may enjoy a lower rate of taxes upon importation to the USA if it is correctly declared as an antique item. The frog fitted to this bayonet is worth about £10.00. In my humble opinion, this bayonet would be worthwhile if you could get it for about £200 as an export sale ( Plus postage and import duties of course).
Kind regards, Lester

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[Aragorn243]

Lester, I can get them for less here in the States. They seem to be selling for between $150-$200 and the dollar is about 61% of the British Pound right now. It's not that I'm not willing to pay that but I would prefer not paying that much. I found that source in Canada for the K31 (& K11) which was half the ebay prices and was just hoping someone knew of a similar source for these. Ebay seems to have no shortage of them lately.

[gew8805]

Well, there is this one on sale on eBay right now with three days to go:

Swiss M.1914 Sawback Bayonet And Scabbard | eBay

Condition is not too bad and no frog (a $25 - $35 item IF you can find one) so, what do you think? (And this is not my item but if moderators feel it is an inappropriate link, please shut it down. )

[LesterH]

The above looks like a nice one. Worth bidding on me thinks. Still has the leather tab on the scabbard.
I know tradeexcanada had some Swiss Bayonets for sale. I have purchased from them in the past.

Kind regaeds, Lester

[Aragorn243]

I've been watching that one. Price is good now but probably won't be a few minutes before it ends. My only issue with it and it isn't a huge issue is the date. It's a 1930 and my rifle is a 1917. If the price is right at the end, that won't hold me back.

---------- Post added at 07:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:19 PM ----------

The above looks like a nice one. Worth bidding on me thinks. Still has the leather tab on the scabbard.
I know tradeexcanada had some Swiss Bayonets for sale. I have purchased from them in the past.

Kind regaeds, Lester

I like that Steyr bayonet price. No 1914 bayonets right now but they have the 1918's. The shipping from Canada just kills the bargains though.

---------- Post added at 07:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:22 PM ----------

On these bayonets. My gun auction, tomorrow, has a Swiss bayonet for sale. It's the one after the 1918 and before the newest, the one everyone seems to have for sale for $25 right now. What caught my eye was the frog that comes with it. It is in very nice shape but looks older than what this bayonet would normally have. On the back it has the large oval sattlers logo that has a 3 on the left side and a 7 on the right side. I may be mis-interpreting that as a 1937 date but if that is what it is, I'll try to get the bayonet for the frog. I love those bayonets anyway. I did notice stitching on the bottom where the buckle would have once been so again, I'm guessing this would be the right frog for a 1918 bayonet.

[LesterH]

Aragorn243. If you are referring to the Sig57 bayonet. The previous issue 1914/18 leather frogs fit the Sig 57 as well. The proper frog for the 57 is a small green plastic one.

Just in case you don't know. The real early leather bayonet frogs circa 1896 ish. Used the leather tongue on the scabbard for fixing. Later around 1914, the scabbards leather tongues were cut off and a modified leather frog had a strap and buckle to pass through the old leather tongues fixing bracket. a lot of the old leather frogs were reworked to the new design. Look for redundent stitching holes. The stampings on the back of the frog may or may not reveal the history.

I would suggest buying a Sig57 with a leather frog if you can get one for USD25.00. In the Uk at the moment you can buy a nice Sig57 bayonet for about £15+ without a frog. The leather frogs sell for about £10.00. Plastic version about £3. USD25/GB£16 is a good deal compared to the UK.

[Aragorn243]

Lester,

You have to realize that this gun auction I refer to as the gun auction from hell is just that. This was a Sig57 bayonet in proper sheath and the old style leather frog with the stitch holes in it. The bayonets tip, just the very tip, tiny part, was broken off.

It sold for $65 US dollars. I was sitting there just shaking my head. The same guy paid $50 for a beat up Turkish bayonet, $65 for a lot which included a Savage No4 MK II bayonet, an unknown maker bayonet and an unmarked No9 bayonet (without scabbard). He left the good bayonets go without bidding. These included an M7 US bayonet and the large British SMLE bayonet of which the name escapes me right now. That sold in combination with an RFI Jungle SMLE bayonet for $175.

I was in a foul mood long before the bayonets came up for bid. A Gew 98 in fair condition, most of the bluing was gone and the stock had been refinished sold for $1360.00. I had it figured for about $300 or so due to condition. These people are nuts. I know with the rifles at least it may be hard to relate the prices but a Mosin Nagant 30/59 which maxes out at $175 sold for $365. I've watched this same auction house get $350 for the refurbished 91/30's which I can buy at a store called Dunhams for $79, THE EXACT SAME GUN, PROBABLY WHERE THE SELLER GOT THEM FROM.

I hate that auction. In 20 years I've bought two rifles there, and I honestly can't complain about those two but there have been dozens that I would have liked to have brought home that were simply bid to 40% above their value because there are crazy people in attendance.

I found the scabbards on the net last evening. With shipping one will cost me a bit more than $10 I think which isn't bad.

[LesterH]

Aragorn243. Thank you for the above note, all points taken. Some folks don't want to do the "leg work" and find nice exhibits for a fair price. Some people don't mind paying a lot of money for exhibits the experienced collectors know is over priced.They just take the easy path and pay up!
Over the years I have done some commissioned buying for gun clubs in S.Ireland, a film props maker and some Enfield Rifle shooters in the Danish Army. I am pleased to report nothing has ever been returned to me as unsatisfactory.

I started my own militaria collection ( mainly bayonets) a few years ago, because I was fed up with museums, charging poeple good money to look at wrong and worn out stuff! I was sure I could do better. All of us current collectors must remember these historic items are only "lent" to us. We are saving them for the education future generations. We need to save some correct and mint equipment. Someone one day may wish to measure and test it. I get young kids who play on Playstation to run round my garden with a Brengun. Then they realise how fit their soldier Grandads had to be! You don't learn than from reading a book or watching TV! ( apologies to all our member for ranting).

Well done for finding the frogs.Your leg work paid off.

Kind regards, Lester

[Aragorn243]

I don't have a lot of money which is why I do the leg work. What money I have has to count for something. I did my first presentation of my collection this past Thursday. I think it went pretty well. I had about an hour and a half to go over why I collect, what to look for, optional ways to collect and then the individual pieces themselves. I had 12 rifles and 2 handguns from WWI and WWII and bayonets for 11 of the rifles. One, the No4 MKI had three bayonets, and one, the 03A3 had two bayonets. The bayonet I was missing was the 1914 Sawback for my K11.

That presentation was why I've had a flurry of activity these past few months. I have been trying to get nice pieces to present and with a limited budget, that's hard. Planning had been in place for about 6 months.

One piece of good news from the presentation. One of the fellows in attendance asked me to look at a "Marine Corps" knife he had. Turned out to be a model 1917 bolo knife from WWI. No scabbard and it was bent in a few places but the handle was in decent shape and if the bends were worked out it wouldn't be a bad piece at all. He said he bought it in a box of junk many years ago for $1 and had been using it to cut corn stalks. So at least one historic piece will now be preserved rather than destroyed.

I'd like to do this sort of thing more often, this was a trial run at my church in an effort to establish a regular "men's night" for some friendly fellowship. I'm not ready for prime time yet but it was fun. I got some of the nervousness worked out. I'm usually pretty patient with making purchases, waiting for the combination of something I can afford and quality I can live with. I believe I made a mistake in the purchase of the No 5 bayonet that I impulse purchased to complete the pairing with my No 5 Jungle carbine. It's not in a condition I'm really happy with and the price was higher than I liked paying. I plan to now slow down and be patient again. I may do this same presentation or a modified version of it again next year.

[LesterH]

I have done a few exhibitions in the Brewery Museum in Romford, Essex. I lent them some WW1 bayonets and my 1918 SMLE. Later on they did a crime and punishment event and borrowed my Customs rummage equipment etc. Also did an event for the local plastic models club. Some one let them down at short notice. So I did a very quickly improvised British Army guns of WW2. It was most amusing watching the Grandads showing their Grandsons how to do the stoppages on a Brengun etc. Got some more invitations after that event.

I think if you do the "leg work" to find a nice exhibit, both yourself and the audience appreciate it more. Plus it makes a good story! I built up two Brengun tool kits the hard way. One tool at a time!
It's hard to find a good genuine No5 bayonet now. The WW2 production No5s were a bit rough when compared to the late Sterling /Hopkinson No5. However genuine British No5s are going up in value and now is the time to buy. As mentioned in another post Capt Laidler hints the last No5s got the chop, so no more to be released by the MOD in the UK. As with every collectable it quality/condition & supply and demand.
Better a pile of old bayonets to look at than empty beer bottles ( unless you collect beer bottles that is).
Thank you for the posts above. Lester