71L block Long Branch sniper question

[Lee Enfield]

71L0644 with REL MkIII No 137-C

Butt marked 696-C

Cheers,

Simon.

Simon that takes us up to 4.2% of 71L estimated production. Is 137C a Mk3 or a MkI?

I suspect it's the Mk3 that DRP and I discussed some years ago?

Information

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[Simon]

The scope is a Mk3 and both it and the rifle came from the Good Doctor himself "some years ago" although I don't recall exactly how many.

Cheers,

Simon.

Simon that takes us up to 4.2% of 71L estimated production. Is 137C a Mk3 or a MkI?

I suspect it's the Mk3 that DRP and I discussed some years ago?

[Lee Enfield]

As of today I've got 116 Long Branch No4MkI*(T) serial numbers on my list.

There are a few interesting aberations.

The most well known is the 71L0 and 74L0 ring serial number mixups. They must have been assembling and marking serials on the rings for both blocks at the same time...

71L0 (conventional T) rifles with 74L0 numbered scope mounts, and 74L0 (T.P.) scope mounts with 71L0 serial numbers, and scope tins numbered that way - No18 tin with Alaskan TP serial number and 71L rifle number, No8 tin with 74L rifle but No32 serial numbers.

Luckily a TP scope & mount won't function in a No8 tin, while a conventional No32 mount and scope won't funtion in a No18 tin.

One of the owners confirmed that his rifle was marked 71L0XxX while the tin and rings were marked 74L0XxX...and his scope matched the butt stock...

The downside is that it's convinced some people that T.P.s exist outside the 74L block

[Cold_Zero]

As of today I've got 116 Long Branch No4MkI*(T) serial numbers on my list.

What is the highest observed scope number on the REL MK IA? I have seen evidence of one, possibly two C-38xx numbered MK IA scopes both originally mated to 71L0xxx rifles.

[Peter Laidler]

The highest Mk1A I have seen is 3840 on bracket 71L0332 but fitted to rifle 68L3227. As I remember it, it was a poor fit on the rifle by any standards. Apart from that oddball, the highest Mk1A I have ever seen to work on is 477C

Bruce Gorton had some released NZ documents about Mk1A telescopes from Canada that were in answer to a querie regarding fitting this oddball into the NZ Ordnance system. I seem to recall that the reply from Canada says that the Mk1A's were just Mk1's FITTED with Mk2 clicker plates OR Mk1's returned for rectification during the changeover to Mk2 hence the mixture of Mk1 and 2 serial numbers. As a result, they were returned to ordnance as Mk1A's - being MADE as Mk1's but fitted with the later clicker plate. Although the Mk2 MoA clicker plate LOOKS more complicated to make, it is in fact simpler, especially when it's geometrically fixed to the drum in relation to the index plate

SO; Mk1 had a Mk1 50yd. clicker plate AND Mk1 marked drum
Mk1A has a Mk2 MoA clicker plate with Mk1 range drum
Mk2 has Mk2 MoA clicker plate AND Mk2 range drum

[Lee Enfield]

The highest Mk1A I have seen is 3840 on bracket 71L0332 but fitted to rifle 68L3227. As I remember it, it was a poor fit on the rifle by any standards. Apart from that oddball, the highest Mk1A I have ever seen to work on is 477C

snip...

That may help explain the conflict between Law's document research of 1524 scopes purchased & manufactured and the 1588 rifles accepted.

There must have been several scopes engraved as 384 originally as 3840 and 3845 have both been documented as has 3854, and I have records of 2 other scopes with an extra digit (2Xx7-C), so between these 3 scopes we seem to have an indication of @7 - 384 serialed scopes, and @6 - 385 serialed scopes, @9- 2Xx - C = we just added 22 scopes above the range.

Adding an extra digit to the serial number was what inglis did with duplicate high power serial numbers, so there is precident for it having been done in Canadian military production.

[Peter Laidler]

Without having the info that you have access to, I would say that they already had serial numbers 840, 842 and so on up to 854 and so for reasons best known to themselves, added the 3 before the serial number to make, say 848 into 3848. Just my thought.

I have noiticed that on several of the Mk1A's that I have repaired over the years, the 'A' has been added as an afterthought

But an interesting subject. It does highlight the trouble with writing a book that I'm sure Clive agrees with! The first person to read it immediately knows more than you do. That's because he knows ALL that you have just written PLUS the tiny,weeny bit he knew before!

[Lee Enfield]

]

Without having the info that you have access to, I would say that they already had serial numbers 840, 842 and so on up to 854 and so for reasons best known to themselves, added the 3 before the serial number to make, say 848 into 3848. Just my thought.

..snip..

Attachment 35405Attachment 35406

That's exactly what I initially thought, but these scopes are dated '44 and the serial numbers didn't reach into 600 before '45. The highest confirmed known number is 701 dated 1945.

Notice the serial number starting at the same place in reference to the C in Canada and stepped to the right for the -C in the serial number.

I mean how many people doing serial numbers would engrave the same number more than twice? Up to 7 duplicates seems to stretch the imagination, but....

Attachment 35402

Perhaps multiple operators working from the same assigned list which wasn't checked off?

The Inglis examples: 10T series of @500 duplicate serial numbers and the 12T series of @150 duplicate serials

[muffett.2008]

Bloody colonials.