No. 4 (T) DP rifle

[Thunderbox]

I've got AT4264, which is now an L42A1. Only 22 difference!

Our rifles must have been sequential when they became 4(T)s, given that about 1 in 300 BSA rifles went to H&H, calculated by the numbers range.


Mine is also a 1943 rifle, although the original number was stamped quite well.

Scope is 22127, but thats stamped into a beech replacement butt so could be a later upgrade.

Information

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[Roger Payne]

Yep, AT 4242 it is. This is typical BSA 1943 marking; with A followed by a second letter, working sequentially through the alphabet: AA, AB, AC,..........AP, AQ, AR, AS etc., followed by four numerals. I have seen a couple of rifles that were serial numbered like this & dated 1944, but I think BSA must have changed over to the five digit number starting with a '3' very early in 1944 as 44 rifles are ALMOST invariably of this latter numbering system. After the first batch a letter prefix was added; random examples might be 30159, then A34227, then B39088 etc etc. This system continued until the end of hostilities, when production seems to have ceased, although I have seen & heard of a couple of post-war Y prefixed rifles (I saw a Y prefixed 1947 dated rifle on World Wide Arms stand at Beltring a few years ago - sadly it had already been deactivated!), so there may have been some limited assembly most likely of parts to hand.

ATB

[tower06]

Thank you for all the info gentlemen. It definately helps. Does anyine have any ideas about the New Zealand markings. Would that have been a unit marking ir their serial number?

[gsimmons]

From what I've heard they are NZ inventory numbers.

[tower06]

From what I've heard they are NZ inventory numbers.


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Thanks

[Surpmil]

Seems a bit odd that the TR and T are not struck out if the rifle was really converted to DP by a military force, rather than just being stamped by someone.

Also rather odd to have black paint on the side of body, but not on the butt socket. Presumably put on to cover the bare areas where the pads had been.

Overall, the wood and finish look quite original. I would wonder how a rifle could be worn to the point of DP status and yet never have been even refinished in workshops once?

Looking at photos like this one there is very little wear at all!

:

I wonder if this was just a T that was orphaned somehow and stripped of its pads to make it as close to being a standard No4 as possible, or made into a DP just because of its "odd man out" status as an ex-No4(T), rather than because it was worn out?

IRRC, there is evidence that other arms were converted to DP status because they were considered obsolete or non-standard, rather than because they were worn out.

[Thunderbox]

Oooh ..... don't restart the DP debate!

But yes, I think you may well be right. Hard to tell from photos, but the rifle doesn't look as beaten up and worn as might be expected for something out of gauge. Perhaps the scope got broken or lost, so the rifle just went onto the pile for the local cadets or recruits. Probably a common occurrence in countries in which 4(T)s were the only remaining bolt rifles in service.

[Peter Laidler]

They're not struck out because there was no requirement to do so! It was only for the L59 that there was a requirement to delete anything - and that was the proof marks

To be honest Surpmil, a selection of photos isn't really a true indication of wear. The best indicator is the Base Workshop examiners gauge set!

I know one L42 that was scrapped because the front pad had sheared off and no one could find it. After it had been returned to Ordnance, it was found, still screwed to telescope bracket

[Roger Payne]

I must admit I'd want to gauge it & if it checked out ok to restore it to original trim, if I were lucky enough to own it.

[jmoore]

I like it as it sits. Possibly even more pulled apart. It's a useful reference for the machining steps that went into the creation of these rifles. Cutter paths, tooling set-ups, lots of possiblities! It's not often the H&H modified areas on the action body are exposed for long periods on reasonably complete rifles.

As noted before, interesting! And potentially useful. Certainly has value, just perhaps not as a .303" projectile launcher.