Eddystone P14 - Centenary CMP Competitor?

[ArtioZen]

Hi John - Indeed the Kerr NoBuckl? (SP) is a nice looking functional bit of kit !- especially from the period. I have seen a couple at shows but at prices I would not go for without a Model 17 (I may add both to my small collection one day). I think it should produce a nice arm loop sling in prone with the added grip of the canvas.

I quite liked the 1907 sling off front swivel and front trigger guard swivel. Around my upper arm it took the strain off my arm in prone (bursitis) and gave good support without being attached to me like an arm loop - i like the extra freedom for moving into position and really helps cope with the heat. I didn't wrist wrap though - will add this next time - length of sling allowing.

I still need to get through a real stringent rifle inspection / adjudication - the local events have been very relaxed / more interested in its history - kinda makes me wary - so Ill try to get ready to shoot it in any combination of sights and slings it takes!

Cheers!

Information

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[ArtioZen]

Per other threads and some comments here I have measured the tip pressure (front bearing pressure) with an electronic scale in the region of 2.5lbs - which seems the reported "normal" - any more comments / info on bedding welcome!

So had a tuning / plinking session. Tried the new 308 load (listed previously) at 200 yards with the PH5B and needed less "come up" than I thought = plus 9 clicks - 2.25MOA - also shot a group of 5 at 1.5MOA - the best yet! This load needs testing at longer ranges too!

Also tried the battle site set at 200 yards (as some rules may object to the Parker Hale). my reloads were just above POA at 100 yards- very useable...

The highlight was my youngest son (12) shooting for only the second time with a LE No2mk4 (.22) - learning to hit cans at 25 yards and then reaching out to ring 14" square plates at 200 yards

[WarPig1976]

Per other threads and some comments here I have measured the tip pressure (front bearing pressure) with an electronic scale in the region of 2.5lbs - which seems the reported "normal" - any more comments / info on bedding welcome!

Certainly looking like 2.5lbs or so is where one wants to be with these rifles. Thanks for measuring to verify now we have a number and we know it isn't far off because we have tack drivers....

[Doug Rammel]

OK maybe I'm having a senior moment. Is your P-14 a 30 cal or a 303. I never thought to try a 308 bullet in my P-14's. Could you clear up my confusion before I load some up

Thanks

Doug

[ssj]

Looking at your first groups it strikes me that there is more vertical than horizontal dispersion. I can only (at present) comment no no4s, but I'd check that the receiver is well seated and supported in the wood and also maybe try a 5thou (and maybe even 10thou) shim under the nose of the barrel to see if that helps reduce that. If not a change in muzzle velocity might help, if you are slower or faster than std Mk7 ammo this can be a cause. From testing a P14 I'd expect under 2 MOA, using 38gr ADI2208 and a Barnaul flatbase projectile in 1943 DI cases (which is quite slow BTW).

[ArtioZen]

Hi Doug - My P!4 is a bone stock all Eddystone in Britt 303. Its Barrel slugs at 0.3122" per my earlier posts. I did a lot of research and consulting with mentors before trying different sized projectiles - I am no reloading expert. Know your stuff! (its your eye an inch from the bolt). I also tried 0.312" sized projectiles but the groups were largest of all.

Hi ssj - thanks for the observations and tips - they are greatly appreciated! I have found myself staring at all of the targets repeatedly over time and still see new things :/ - I like the vertical stringing observation - subtle but persistent! I have not yet got into the world of P14 bedding - I was tempted to strip clean and assess after this outing, as the heat had it oozing oil and some cosmoline. I thought 3MOA 10 round groups with no culled shots as "pretty good" - getting 2MOA would be great. My 5 round groups are approaching 1.7MOA with no culls in the P14 with this load. I will have shims and scale ready when I strip it. I am intrigued per the velocity of this and my other loads - I expect slower than 2400 fps. What weight are the Barnaul projectiles?

Be good, be safe or be fast!

[ssj]

I have not yet got into the world of P14 bedding - I was tempted to strip clean and assess after this outing, as the heat had it oozing oil and some cosmoline. I thought 3MOA 10 round groups with no culled shots as "pretty good" - getting 2MOA would be great. My 5 round groups are approaching 1.7MOA with no culls in the P14 with this load. I will have shims and scale ready when I strip it. I am intrigued per the velocity of this and my other loads - I expect slower than 2400 fps. What weight are the Barnaul projectiles?

Be good, be safe or be fast!

If anyone has a good guide to tuning a P14 I am all ears, I have found nothing as yet except some simple trials on nose weight someone else did which worked well. NB Taking to the old guys a P14 is best up to 500yds and a regulated (ie centre bedded) no4 then starts to shine at 500~600yds and then outshoots a p14 to 900yds (regulated no4s can do 1MOA). Unfortunately most of the ppl who tuned both of these are now dead (they are 70~90 or would be) (the youngest I talk to is 83!) and hence I have got very little solid info so Im experimenting from almost scratch.

To test, the nose loading on no4s I put the the thinnest paper or sewing cotton I can find under the barrel, bolt it up. I fill 1 or 2 litre (quart) plastic milk bottle containers (weight them) and tie on loops of string, put the gun upside down and then add containers to the nose until the paper/cotton is movable. Note the total water weight and go shoot. A mate did this on his P14 and found that a 5thou brass shim gained him 1/4moa. Weight varies but has to be al least 3lbs and 7lbs is possible. Hence Im dead keen to find out what others find is their ideal weights for P14s and indeed p17s.

The Barnuals are 174gr, flat base FMJs. They are lead core, very soft steel jacketed with a copper top layer. The main body is 0.310 diameter but the flat base is 0.3105 or 0.311 so that is the seal point. Weight ranges on a box of 100 is +/- 0.2grain (max, most (90+) are +/- 0.1) so pretty good. As I said earlier with 38gr ADI2208 (Varget in the USA) max OAL, fed210 primers and 1943DIZ brass they do under 2MOA. I am waiting on a chrony to come, I suspect that load is 2200fps so well under the 2400fps muzzle of the Mk7. Once I get the chrony I'll try some hotter loads to see if the I can get better.

[RBruce]

With Parker-Hale Receiver Sights

[CINDERS]

A thing I do with my 303 cases is anneal them straightup out of the box (L-R 3 annealed cases and 1 plain Jane) as you find that repeated firings harden the neck which can cause neck tension to vary (I crimp mine also) plus the expander ball works the neck pretty hard.
I would work up a bit on the 150's with the Varget (AR 2208 in Aus) I was using 42 grains but always work up to it as your rifle is not mine but the 150 Hornadys went really well as they are a .312 SPFB.
Trimming and FLS is the order of the day some go to great lengths to correctly fire form the brass to that particular weapon that's cool if you only have one to feed but with a heap of them going it is easier to FLS that way there is no chance of a jam halfway through a speed shoot.
FLS is also good as if you just neck size the cases do stretch somewhat and the shoulder can move forward creating a very hard to close bolt not to mention the other hazards with this event.

[ArtioZen]

I finally received the missing screw from the UK for the front volley sight - so after removing the cosmolene plug in the female threads in the base, it is together and ready for long range volley fire