Australian use of old Ross sniper rifles in WWII??

[Surpmil]

According to documents examined by Clive Law, after Dunkirk an urgent request was made to Canada for Ross rifles fitted with scopes. The reply was sent back that there were none available. Obviously the reputation of the Ross for accuracy was remembered, even it if always denigrated officially as a service rifle. The same book "Without Warning" documents how the remaining WWI Ross/Warner & Swasey units were used for training in Canada for several years, presumably until sufficient No4(T)s became available; that is except for either 80 or 150 presumably loose W&S scopes which were taken to the UK by the 1st Canadian Division and fitted to P14s. Seems doubtful that any would have made it to the SW Pacific unless they did so after 1943, as we know the P14 W&S was still in service with the Canadians in Italy that year. However, it is possible that rifles became available as the No4(T) replaced them in Canadian units I suppose. Whether anyone would have taken the trouble to send them out to New Guinea I don't know, but I rather doubt it. Still, someone took the trouble to send some Alex Martin P14s to the Med in 1941 where Tom Barker was issued one on his way to Crete, and no one else in his battalion was, so one never knows!

There is another account in a book called "Not as a Duty Only" by an Australian officer on loan to a British regiment in NW Europe in 1944 in which he mentions two snipers in his regiment using "Canadian Ross rifles" and taking out a German officer at 1000 yards as measured by range finder. I suspect these were P14s, but we may never know for sure.

If anyone in Australia can track down the author who name I forget, they might be able to nail down the story. I wrote years and years ago to the publisher but never got a reply.

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[Paul S.]

One thought that crosses my mind is whether a number of Ross rifles may have been sold off and exported to Australia as range or hunting rifles during the interwar years. If they had, isn't it possible that a number of them may have been 'volunteered' for service as were numbers of heavy barrel SMLE range rifles?

[Surpmil]

I suppose anything is possible but with all those H barrel SMLE's on hand, why complicate things with a logistically unsupportable rifle?

Hopefully the OP will come back with the results of his further conversation with the vet concerned.

[Paul S.]

I suppose anything is possible but with all those H barrel SMLE's on hand, why complicate things with a logistically unsupportable rifle? ...

Desperate times called for desperate measures?

[Frederick303]

Not sure if this helps but my copy of NSWRA service rifle rules for 1937 does not allow any rifle but the SMLE MK III, MKIII*, MK III heavy barrel or shortened MLE. The allowable modifications are listed and there is no mention of the Ross at all. So the likelihood of these being pre-war range rifles is unlikely.

[Sniper1944]

Is there any evidence to suggest that Ross sniper rifles were used outside of the training in Canada during WW2? With the short supply of No.4T's to Canada during the early to mid stages of the war I'm wondering if they pressed the Ross back into operational service especially in places like Italy?





Thanks,

Paul.

[Surpmil]

Is there any evidence to suggest that Ross sniper rifles were used outside of the training in Canada during WW2? With the short supply of No.4T's to Canada during the early to mid stages of the war I'm wondering if they pressed the Ross back into operational service especially in places like Italy?

Thanks,

Paul.

Telescope equipped Ross rifles were requested by the UK in 1940 after Dunkirk. Canadian reply was that all were needed for training. At least 80 Warner & Swasey scopes were taken to the UK by the 1st Cdn. Div. in 1940. These were fitted to P14 rifles in the UK by persons unknown. Ross MkIIIs with Warner & Swasey scopes were used for training in Canada until at least 1943, in 1944 it was recommended the scopes be scrapped; it seems most were. This is all from "Without Warning". Pacific Coast Militia Rangers were issued the MkIII in WWII as well as Winchester 94 and M17 rifles. Photos show Rosses being used by Veterans Guard or a few other security details in Canada I believe. I have seen textual references to PoW camp guards using them for example.

Since the P14 was already on issue it wouldn't have made sense to introduce another rifle into overseas service.

[browningautorifle]

Not very likely.

[Sniper1944]

As in evidence or them being used outside of Canada?





Paul.

[browningautorifle]

I've never seen anything about it at all, they weren't that short of gear. All we see is the off line use, such as home guard in the UK and US...even here in Canada, my father-in-law used an M1917 as his issue rifle...no Ross. I've talked to lots of guys that were there also and not once have they mentioned a Ross...