Longbranch sniper 30LXXXX

[Peter Laidler]

That made me chuckle Warren........

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Gil Boyd]

That has made me feel right "Peckish" lol

[Warren]

Good point, however if you ever think you will find a record book listing the sniper numbers in Canada "it just ain't gonna happen".
The records on REL and a huge number of the records on Canadian arms manufacture were destroyed in the late 50's or early 60's when a pipe broke in the cellar where a good portion of the records were stored in Ottawa. The cellar flooded to the ceiling and the wet documents were sent "across the river" to the E.B. Eddy paper mill and probably accounted for some rather historical toilet tissue at the time. Most of the info you find has been taken from the few remaining records or prime source interviews. However, remember that most of the people involved are well up in age and really...it was just a job and who thought that anyone would "give a f**k" in 60 or 70 years anyhow". Physical specimens and some personal recollections are mainly what you have to go on today and damned few personal recollections nowadays.
I've had a number of meetings with the Dominion Archivist looking for records that I know exist as I have the index. I found it in England years ago while doing research at the Pattern Room however, the Canadian records are long gone. My index is an embarrassment to the Canadian archive system, but if the records no longer exist what can you do. Since you live much closer to Ottawa than I do, I'd like to suggest that you head up there for a week or so and do some searching yourself and see how frustrating it can be. The records are kept in Pembroke or Arnprior and can be ordered twice a day. Sometimes you get lucky but most of the time not.
Dave Edgecombe, who did a brilliant job on early Canadian arm,s spent years there and produced a monumental book on Canadian arms (Defending the Dominion) and I'll wager few have it in their library. If people cannot punch a serial number into a computer and get unequivocal proof that it is a genuine piece they loose interest quickly.
Nothing in the military arms manufacture or repair business is black and white. A large number of orphans are out there and were done up for specific purposes, tests and trials. Many units were made up as gifts to friendly countries after the war as well. Lots of pieces were made up in local COD workshops and repairs made with the parts at hand. When you were replacing a butt, forend, scope, mount or told to make a bushing and brass is the only material you have at hand, you get it done, working and out the door asap. That is the cold hard reality of a COD (Central Ordnance Depot).
The old curmudgeon hisself.

[harlton]

Hi Warren,
Thanks for all that, I feel better about the parts I'm using and have picked to build this replica of mine with. I had a Machine shop owner friend Mr Jimmy Craig in the early 80's. He served all though WW2. He shot competitively in Toronto at the armories I believe, and in the Ontario long range Matches regularly. He still had LB ex-employees or some group helping him out as I remember. He had a long association with this rifle, just looking at all the stickers all over the box was enough.
Hence I got the impression, from him it was a mid war issue, and from the way he talked, they had built a legendary name for accuracy in the field,during that period, and the sniper rifle to have. I believe he was in the Italian campaign, from odd thing he said, don't quote me.
I saw few others on the market back then. I know he was always getting offers to sell it, but that was never on the cards.
So I think your answers wraps up, what I have learn't so far up nicely, and that my 30L, is getting the right parts to make it a sensible replica, and not just a silly concoction. One interesting thing I've purchased is a lb marked mid band and it's been made offset so the strap won't pull so much at the front. Would this be something a sniper would try or more a match shooter, interesting as it's deliberately made offset, not sure to fit it or not, I do have a nice early band, well marked to slot in there otherwise, But it's nicely made and stamped and a bit different.
Any way thanks a lot for those answers Warren, much appreciated. I never expected a pot of gold at the end. Your answers were pretty much hitting the nail on the head, thanks very much.

Best regards Ian

[Peter Laidler]

Some of that info is priceless Warren. I realise that you probably don't think like this Warren but, and I mean this in a nice way, when you shuffle off this mortal coil, all the priceless info that you have tucked away in the brain cells will disappear too. Just like I wish I'd picked my dads brain clean. Took a stretchered wounded soldier onto a ship, the Gracie Fields' at Dunkirk and a medic on the ship told him to stay with him. My dad said that he had an Ambulance ( a brand new one too.....) at the quayside. You stay with him 'till I tell you to go said the medic Sergeant. Saved his life! but on the way back for the next trip, the Gracie Fields was dive bombed and sunk. His ambulance was just dozed off the quay into the sea. That's all I know about that part of his life!

Warren. write it all down, just like those gems you've just told us about. Those early LB snipers were all done on a piece-meal basis until someone from H&H was shipped over to instruct them how to production line the whole conversion process.

[ssj]

So from reading this it would be fair to say that a 4T numbered 5Lxxxx is definitely non-genuine?

[limpetmine]

Peter, that is a good point. When the second generation past WWII departs, the first person stories we've heard go with us. We owe it to history to write it down and get it published. That's ONE good thing about the WWW, once it's put out there, there's no hiding it.

Having trusted friends that can "put it out there" when we're gone might be one way to skin that cat.

[Surpmil]

I've posted before about a 1943 Long Branch No4 I have that has the pad holes drilled in the body side about 1/4" back from the usual position. The threads are those used on the No4(T) and a 4BA tap is broken off in one of the front pad holes. Neither the action nor the bolt have any serial or show any sign of having had them. The fit of the bolt to the bolt way is very close, even for a Long Branch.

[Roger Payne]

Interesting thread. I think if you're making a replica Harlton, you are quite safe to use whatever rifle you want, as you're not trying to deceive anybody into thinking it is genuine, but I'm sure a 30something L rifle is acceptable. The lowest serialled LB T that I've ever owned was a 1943 dated 39L complete with Mk1A scope. Sadly now long gone.

ATB

[harlton]

thanks Roger,
Fair point, so let me assure everyone, I'm building myself a four rifles, that I've always wanted to do, just to enjoy. I don't want any pressure from the feeling like every couple of boxes I put thru the real ones, I'm wearing out some valuable piece of history. I'm an engineer and mechanical sympathy runs deep in my veins.
I've been lucky enough to find a friend in New Zealand, great guy who helps me with my creations, not possible without his help, So thanks you know who you are and I'm not name dropping.
Anyway I'm building a WW1 1915 BSA sniper receiver thanks to Marstar, it's like new, and some one else who finds me barrels, found me my No4LT mk1* 1943. the other two I'm building are a early one a long lee target rifle, and one lee Speed special order, using a shortened but fat No4 barrel I have with lugs removed. So there's my master plan, I have health problems so these will be it, with a bit of luck.
To quote Charlton Heston, once finished, "from my cold dead hands". So with all the replica issues bouncing around, I'm going to stamp mine in non visible places, until you remove the first item and then it's going to say replica loud and clear, and Built by. I'm keeping them till I'm gone.Just like certain Nortons I own too.
I don't see why these crooks should be able to cheat someone with my work. I do intend to make as true a rifle as possible but function over correctness will win in places, I have an excellent 2.5 weaver scope, nearly identical in every way, even sight picture and it's really clear, fits my mounts, I cannot see spending $500 on an Indian repop when the $40 scope I have, is excellent.
So I hope these will never be branded fakes, if they are it won't be any fault of mine. I hope that's fair enough, these are for shooting not fooling. I'll post numbers and pictures when done.

Regards Ian