U.S. Model 1903, loaded question

[Chuckindenver]

DCM sales were of issued 1903,s and 1903A3,s , not just target rifle,s..
thousands of A3,s were sold to NRA members through the DCM.
other rifles sold as surplus, 1903,s ect, were sold through ,mail order, Army surplus stores, sporting good stores ect.
not many are true bring back, that in itself is a rare item, a bring back US arm with papers, id say thats one of the rare ones.
also sold, through the DCM and Camp Perry were standard service rifles, these were rifles that were issue rifles, to shoot in the standard service rifle class.
or labled {special target} a standard service rifle that was star guaged, and had the receiver rails polished.
they arent that rare, but one with sales papers is, i had a chance at a large lot of Remington 1903,s that were still in the grease bags, and all had the redtstripe everyone is drooling over these days.
if i remember right 400.00 each was the price at 10 count..didnt have that kinda cash at the time.
i would say, the rarest, service 1903 rifle would be a true Marine issue 03 with papers to prove it, in 80% or better shape.
Nick Ferris has such a rifle, and it is a Gem for sure.
about 90% of the US military rifles on the market or collections was sold as surplus through the gov, at one time. or it would be a stolen gun, or a war trophy with papers, a gun smuggled back is a stolen gun, no matter how you look at it..unless it came with the war trophy papers issued.
another rare Gem , would be a 1903 in 30-03 {non RB} in its original trim, and mint shape.
iv seen one in my life for sale at a local gunshop for 1200.00 about 10 years ago, i tried to dig up the money, but , by the time i did, it was already gone.
i do belive Nick has that rifle as well.

[sdh1911]

Chuck your a breath away, but the Marine issued guns wouldn't necessarily a particular version they had S.C's as well as the Rem's in there stash However you drove a good point on the DCM stuff they did indeed distribute Previously "Issued" ares as well as rifles supplied to target community. This question is not intended to include ANY target version available from the DCM including but not limited to the stargaged versions, N.M. or re-barreled w/stargage, M1/22's M2/22's, hornets, prototypes, snipers rigs, Springfield sporters, M1922 or M1922 I.M. 64,000 numbered 03's, NRA rigs or 1903A4, Hmm did I forget any? This isn't a trick question, its very straight forward, if you go by the numbers, which variation would be the rarest? Not the most valuable, not the best shooter, not the prettiest, heck not even the strangest finish, just the rarest by the numbers. Give it a shot, I'll let you know this weekend, Go for it dude's,-Steve

[Chuckindenver]

soo, i guess this would be a in your opinion question then...?ask this same question in the CSPs 1903 forum and see what reponce you get, a few the guys that regular post in the forum, wrote the books you see on the shelves,
John Beard, Clark Campbell, and others, every one would have a different opinion of what the rarest 1903 issued rifle would be, as we all collect, and like different variantions of the same rifle.

[BruceV]

The 03 used by Sgt. York.

[sdh1911]

I'm strictly basing this question on production numbers as you may see tomorrow if its not guessed by then. I know of at least three members of CSP that should nail this down in a hurry! Hint: Think change-SDH

[Chuckindenver]

with over 15 million 1903,s made by SA and 400thousand RIA made, the RIA would be the more rare of the 2 makers.
anything else wouldnt fit in your guidelines.,.how bout getting to the point??

[sdh1911]

In the beginning of WW II Rock Island sent its equipment up to Remington to produce guns, starting with serial #3,000.000. These guns were exactly like the R.I. minus the finger groove, they produced well under 50,000 before having changes approved, such as stampings for the upper bands, wire bolt lug replacements, R.I. rear sight an most important a hole "NOT" drilled through the tang of the receiver. These are the rarest known issued rifles of that family. If you have one congradulations.

The most hotly debated is a "pre" war time 1903A1 which would have no slots cut for the rear A3 hand guard and a circle p with inspectors marks, not a DCM gun. I have one but its NIB and appears not to have been issued. I was offered $5K for it over 10 years ago and turned it down, pics supplied upon request. But this version has never been proved out-Steve D. H.

[Chuckindenver]

well, some flaws in your info, they used the blind hole, on Remington 1903,s until mid production, then drilled it all the way through. i have some examples if you like, the first 20 or so Remingtons, had no serial numbers, and no makers marks as well.
Remington used milled parts all the way through production, they replaced the parts that broke with stamped A3 parts, as they needed them, later in production, Remington used zamak aloy to make the milled parts, trigger guard, upper band, buttplate ect, they broke easy, and were replaced.
the term 1903A1 is thrown around too easy to any rifle shoved in a C stock.
starting at serial number 1million20051 and up could be a genuine A1, and like the NM is only a A1 if made that way, and sold by the DCM as a 1903A1,
i have just about complete list of the rifles sold as a 1903A1 by the US Gov,
for the record, not many Remingtons saw isssued combat service, most were sent to other countrys England, New Zealand ect, some were used in Navy ship yards, and other security areas, thats why you find so many nice Remington 03,s
another thing i notice, most true 1903 collectors, dont care about the Remington 03, for the reasons listed above,
i however love the Remington 03, and have seen and held one of the model Remington 03,s made with RIA stuff, owned by a local collector, Nick Ferris, he had it on display at the Colorado Collectors show a few years ago.
Mr Ferris has done a few books on RIA and M1917 Enfields.
id like to see some good pics of the unfired 1903A1 you have...:}

[Chuckindenver]

FYI: York used a M1917 Enfield...:}

[Dan M]

In the beginning of WW II Rock Island sent its equipment up to Remington to produce guns, starting with serial #3,000.000. These guns were exactly like the R.I. minus the finger groove, they produced well under 50,000 before having changes approved, such as stampings for the upper bands, wire bolt lug replacements, R.I. rear sight an most important a hole "NOT" drilled through the tang of the receiver. These are the rarest known issued rifles of that family. If you have one congradulations.

Sorry mate, Remington M1903s were originally manufactured with grasping groove stocks. Actual usage of stamped components occured late in 1942. Not sure what you mean by wire bolt lug replacements.

A very early Remington:



Here's a close up of the serial number



Another pair of early Remingtons, still in cosmoline: