No 5 Carbine project- Input welcome and appreciated

[Catch22]

That's EXACTLY how 90% of them were when we took the woodwork off. Quite deeply pitted and full of rust. But once they'd been through the main workshop/Armourers system they came out like new. All the steel that was hidden by the wood was lathered in a special grease to keep the monsoons and everything else out!

The grand old lady deserves the full treatment

Ugh, I wish I had the funds for a full treatment! That's going to be part of my hurdle. I can take my time and get the wood and small parts to get it operating, but a complete refinish I would imagine would get a bit pricey for me.

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[bigduke6]

The full treatment doesn't need to cost an arm and a leg, first thing you need to do is get the metal work in some kind of order, I'm a firm believer in the electrolysis method of getting a good proportion of rust off, simple, cheap and very affective.

With this you need a plastic container, for a barrelled action you could use guttering with two end caps, a 12 volt battery charger, a piece of scrap metal and some washing powder......
As for bead blasting if you do not have access to a compressor etc then look around for someone who does blasting or wheel finishing, parkerizing is quite straight forward and your in the right part of the world to get some of the Brownells solution.

The paint is probably the hardest thing to come by over there (Suncorite 259) as for woodwork, still a lot of No4 NOS woodwork to hand, I've plenty of hand guards if you need one.

[browningautorifle]

Before we had facility we rented space at a stone work that carved headstone...their blasting cabinet was monumental...

Don't use walnut, use glass beads. Pits CAN be filled in with wire feed weld, but I'd look long and hard at it before deciding to do it.

[Catch22]

OK, you've got me intrigued. I had essentially wrote of the "full treatment" due to cost. So, let me ask some questions.

How does one fix/repair the pitting? Or do you?

What is the appropriate coating? As mentioned, the Suncorite isn't something I'm likely going to be able to find. I'm not sure what Peter is talking about with the phosphate coating or if it can be done around here. There are some guys that do Cerakote that I might be able to get to do the oven work, but I'm not sure what other options I might have in that regard. Bead blasting I'm not sure about. I have access to a blaster and could use walnut media, but not sure if I've got connections to do bead without having to pay or not. I'd also have to look at cost of the materials

The metal is my big concern, I can go from there as far as what to do with the wood I think. I can strip and steam out the dents, then replace the part that's been chipped off. I know raw linseed oil in a heated tank is original from some past readings of Peter's, but BLO has been my go-to substitute.

Somehow I knew this would turn into more than some work on the wood. LOL

[bigduke6]

OK, you've got me intrigued. I had essentially wrote of the "full treatment" due to cost. So, let me ask some questions.

How does one fix/repair the pitting? Or do you?

What is the appropriate coating? As mentioned, the Suncorite isn't something I'm likely going to be able to find. I'm not sure what Peter is talking about with the phosphate coating or if it can be done around here. There are some guys that do Cerakote that I might be able to get to do the oven work, but I'm not sure what other options I might have in that regard. Bead blasting I'm not sure about. I have access to a blaster and could use walnut media, but not sure if I've got connections to do bead without having to pay or not. I'd also have to look at cost of the materials

The metal is my big concern, I can go from there as far as what to do with the wood I think. I can strip and steam out the dents, then replace the part that's been chipped off. I know raw linseed oil in a heated tank is original from some past readings of Peter's, but BLO has been my go-to substitute.

Somehow I knew this would turn into more than some work on the wood. LOL

1) The pitting is there for good, its just a way of cleaning it up and stopping further corrosion.

2) bead blasting you will need a hard medium, aluminium oxide or fine sand

3) Electrolysis is a cheap way to remove surface rust etc you will be impressed with the results. just saves some time in the blasting cabinet.

4) Phosphate same as parkerizing.....

5) Paint, I don't know what you have over there but others may know of something similar,

6) Raw linseed and BLO, one dries quicker than the other (BLO) it has additives to speed up the drying time, old BLO was basically boiled by hot air.


Some links to show the electrolysis effects on rust etc,

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=54108

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=50556

[Peter Laidler]

Phone Brian at BDL in SC, (he's on this site) ask him to look at the photos and then ask him to give you a quote for bead blasting the steelwork, phosphating and painting. You fully strip it and carefully assemble it afterwards. It's easy!

The rust removal is with the blaster. The future rust preventer is the phosphate treatment and the protection is the paint. Assuming that you aren't going to use the rifle in the monsoons or fight in the mangrove swamps of Johore in Malaya, a good quality oven bake exhaust paint will probably do. The old lady deserves better than a cat lick I say!

[Catch22]

Phone Brian at BDL in SC, (he's on this site) ask him to look at the photos and then ask him to give you a quote for bead blasting the steelwork, phosphating and painting. You fully strip it and carefully assemble it afterwards. It's easy!

The rust removal is with the blaster. The future rust preventer is the phosphate treatment and the protection is the paint. Assuming that you aren't going to use the rifle in the monsoons or fight in the mangrove swamps of Johore in Malaya, a good quality oven bake exhaust paint will probably do. The old lady deserves better than a cat lick I say!

I appreciate the info and got with Brian a little bit ago. Looks like I'm going to have to do some saving to pull off the full treatment on it. I'm sure it'd be well worth it, just outside the budget limits at the moment.

I'm going to do some debating on where to go for now. I hate to do too much getting it shootable without doing something to finish and protect it. Maybe at least get a start on it and try the electrolysis to get the rust stopped and keep it oiled until I get the funds up.

[Steve H. in N.Y.]

It looks like the handguard retaining ring is missing. The only way to get one onto the barrel intact is to remove the front sight base which may or may not involve a some type of press and a bit of profanity. I've had the pleasure of doing this twice and if I had to do it again I think I'd just snip the bottom of the ring and weld or braze it back together once it was coaxed over the barrel.

[Catch22]

It looks like the handguard retaining ring is missing. The only way to get one onto the barrel intact is to remove the front sight base which may or may not involve a some type of press and a bit of profanity. I've had the pleasure of doing this twice and if I had to do it again I think I'd just snip the bottom of the ring and weld or braze it back together once it was coaxed over the barrel.

You're correct, it is missing. Not looking forward to that now. LOL May try your brazing trick.

[Seaspriter]

I know raw linseed oil in a heated tank is original from some past readings of Peter's, but BLO has been my go-to substitute.

Every Lee Enfield purist will chastise me for what I'm going to say here, but I will say it anyway: Do not use RLO -- it will be gummy, attract dirt, and oxide to a dark chocolate brown over several decades. RLO was used during war because it was plentiful and cheap. BLO is better -- it will function better, will dry better, and will take twice as long to turn chocolate brown.

As a restorer of old boats that have to bake in the hot Florida sun and withstand tropical rain conditions in the summer, I will state unequivocally that if you want the wood on your gun to receive the best treatment, you will not use BLO but instead use pure Tung Oil -- it's is a better wood preservative, a better fungicide, doesn't oxidize (thus displaying the grain better) and a more durable, waterproof finish. Tung Oil was used on M1s whenever it was available because it is better, but more expensive. The very best marine varnishes use Tung Oil as their base. The cheap (low quality, poor performing) marine varnishes use Linseed Oil as their base.

This summer I am going to do an experiment -- put a piece of wood out in the hot sun and tropical rain -- one half covered with BLO and the other half covered with Tung Oil. When the experiment is over, you can see the results for yourself (maybe you'll try it for yourself). Then decide what you want to do with your expensive cherished gun. Just my opinion.

Phone Brian at BDL in SC, (he's on this site) ask him to look at the photos and then ask him to give you a quote for bead blasting the steelwork, phosphating and painting. You fully strip it and carefully assemble it afterwards. It's easy!

Brian is the best. If you want to bring your gun back to the highest quality standards, you can't go wrong. He restored my Long Branch sniper -- it is as good as new -- the best Lee Enfield in my collection.