Operation Market Garden Capture Nazi Hi-Power

[Brit plumber]

Is there a reliable resource for approximate date of manufacture using the serial number?

There's a few resource pages on the web, I think the last guns were in the 66,000b serial range.

[HOOKED ON HISTORY]

There's a few resource pages on the web, I think the last guns were in the 66,000b serial range.

I have looked a bit without much luck. Stumbled upon a pretty nice example in the 149xxx range. Best I can determine from secondary sources late 41 to mid 42. Fixed sights nice fit & finish.

[Gil Boyd]

For histories sake, and from one who cares about facts concerning brave men, I felt it important to place this soldiers details on the site in answer to Johns initial post, as one of the bravest of the brave against overwhelming odds. I have given John as much as we can on his service and repatriation.

He was a Private 6853688 G.G. MARKS of HQ Company, 1 PARA number 6630 on the operational Chalk list. Sadly the rest of the story concerning the pistol remains with the man himself, or until further information comes forward, but as records on such pieces becomes more accessible, I am sure something will surface in time.

[mrclark303]

Thanks Gill, it would be great to put some more flesh on the bones of this.

If only Geoff Marks was still with us to give his first hand account. I wonder how many Market Garden veterans are still with us today?

[Paul S.]

'Monsieur Laloux's report to the CIOS ended with an account of the departure of all the German staff and soldiers from the FN factory on the 6th of September, 1944. Production of the 1944 "b" series pistols had reached 63,000, for a grand total production during the Occupation of 319,000 pistols.'

R. Blake Stevens, The Browning High Power Automatic Pistol, Collector Grade Publications Inc., Toronto, 1992, Page 81.

[mrclark303]

I wonder why the Germans didn't raise the Factory to the ground when they bugged out?

Seems odd to have left the place intact..

[Paul S.]

From what I have read, they basically appropriated all the machinery they could, taking it back the der Vaterland, and left the rest in a shambles. I understand, from the same readings, that they left in rather a hurry and a bit sooner than they expected to do.

[Gil Boyd]

Mrclark303
John,
Not wishing to digress here, but in my long search for the hurried but exact burial site in 1941 of Lt Jock Lewes founding father of the SAS IMHO, for his family, I took a different viewpoint.

As they had returned from a highly successful attack on an airfield in southern Libya on the 31st December 1941, it was a lone Messerschmidt 110 that sprayed the vehicles as they waited for the rest of the patrol at a final RV.

Sadly in this pilots randon spraying, Jock Lewes was hit in the hip and bled to death at the RV. I interviewed the man that buried him in a shallow grave, a Cpl Jimmie Storrie RIP a number of years ago now, and sadly no longer with us, who gave me a rough location.

Coming to the point....I then located the German Pilots report after a lot of hard work in Germany, and his side of what he saw and did on the day from his actual words which were indeed recorded.
From his flying log of the attack I could then cross the hairs and precisely locate the likely spot, as his Lat/Long was written down of his attack.

I had nearly given up, but found that EVERYTHING is actually recorded during wars, but it is finding the documentation that takes the time and real effort.

So in short, as I said earlier in the thread, the records for that pistol are in someone's hands, which if located through FN Historical or whoever, will make a nice pistol really collectable and dot the i's and cross the t's to the whole historic provenance of it.

Might be worth trying their museum on this, even if they can tell you when that series of pistols were stamped for the Germans would be a starting point regardless of numbers produced as that would be recorded as to who authorised that one after production feature.

Good luck but worth the time I am sure.

We do still have a number of Market Garden vets alive, some I see often on various gatherings of the Regiment. My good friend and local lad to East Anglia Johnny Peters died a couple of years ago very suddenly. He was the President of the Arnhem Vets for a number of years. Great bunch of lads, whose humour is as fresh today as it no doubt was, then under a great deal of pressure!!

[Flying10uk]

It was my understanding that most/all of the F.N. records didn't survive the last war but I stand to be corrected on this. The reason I came across this information is because a few years ago ago I was trying to establish a date of a F.N. Browning 1910 (U.K. deactivated) auto pistol which I own. I plan to start a future thread on this item, but basically my Grandfather purchased a new example in the early 1930s but ended up handing it in the 1950s when firearms laws in the U.K. became more strict. He did, however keep the leather holster which he had made himself and a spare mag plus cleaning rod and brush. These bits eventually passed to me and when I had the opportunity to purchase a deact F.N. 1910 pistol I did.

[Paul S.]

Actually most of the FN records did survive the war. While some of the executive and design staff escaped to Britain, most of the factory staff ended up working under duress for the 'new owners'.

Gil,

The Germans as we know are obsessively meticulous record keepers. I would start my search with Bundesarchiv looking specifically for records (quartermasters' records in particular) of any units including administration and Feldpolizei known to be anywhere within 20 to 40 'klicks' of the Arnhem drop zones.