The differences between British and Australian L1A1, SLRs.

[mrclark303]

Afternoon Peter,

I have always found it curios regarding the NZ purchase of UK spares, especially given the very close military cooperation between NZ and Australia and the obvious geographic advantage of buying Lithgow! Kevin will no doubt shed some light on this when he come along, but for what ever reason, they bought UK plastics and developed and issued their own in very small quantity's.

A typical NZ mod to the plastic butt is a simple wire sprung loop replacing the British sling attachment. Enfield, Faz and BSA cocking handles are commonly observed on well used NZ Lithgows.

I have also seen one example with a late 1986 manufacture Parker Hale barrel and gas block assembly, though this might possibly have been a post service civvy replacement for the original, as Kevin said he hadn't seen any others so re-fitted and that example had been Birmingham proofed.

That's very interesting regarding the bayonets, I assume they could be produced royalty free from Fn as they were a totally separate commonwealth design?

Information

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[Lee Enfield]

...snip...
I have also seen one example with a late 1986 manufacture Parker Hale barrel and gas block assembly, though this might possibly have been a post service civvy replacement for the original, as Kevin said he hadn't seen any others so re-fitted and that example had been Birmingham proofed.

...snip...

Have seen a 1959 BSA fitted with a (1989? dated) PH gas block & barrel, PH marked charging slide and cocking handle ( the PH was molded into the cocking handle, and deeply marked into the slide).

TMH was "force matched" to the upper and the original serial # was "barred out" with an engraved bar.

[mrclark303]

Have seen a 1959 BSA fitted with a (1989? dated) PH gas block & barrel, PH marked charging slide and cocking handle ( the PH was molded into the cocking handle, and deeply marked into the slide).

TMH was "force matched" to the upper and the original serial # was "barred out" with an engraved bar.

Thanks for that info, yep see a few "end of the line" British rebuilds using PH manufactured parts, (ex Enfield plant I think) and likewise, with replaced/renumbered salvaged TMH's.

I still have a few 1989 PH cocking handle assemblies in my spares box, NOS, always worth having spare!

[Peter Laidler]

The bayonet was royalty free, but.........! FN got their pound of flesh when it came to paying for our changes in design of the flash eliminator that was to accommodate our bayonet over the the two (?) variables* of bayonets that came with their design
(* feel free to correct this anyone from the bayonet community)

Further to thread 9 above, this mixed fleet saga also gave Oz and NZ a bit of a headache because when batches of Oz bayonets went down to the big Field workshops or came up from Ordnance, they came back modified to the UK L1A3 spec - with recessed pommels and short catches! Both of which were alien and not recognised in Oz. The Australian EMEI was eventually altered by WO1 'Jock' Cunningham (another nice bloke whom we called 'sir') after it was all explained to him and he got a UK EMER from the REME/RAEME/RNZEME/FMEME inspectorate in Singapore, to the effect that where these UK type L1A3 bayonets were encountered in service (due to mixed repair/Ord etc etc) in Australia, they were to be treated as standard bayonets and where a new catch was required it could be replaced with a suitably modified (shortened) Aust made catch. So if anyone's reading that V-150 EMEI in Australia or NZ, that's the reason and he's to blame.

Don't even start to ask me how I remember all of this crxx after all this time. Sad or what.......

[mrclark303]

Don't even start to ask me how I remember all of this crxx after all this time. Sad or what.......

Its all fascinating stuff to us anoraks Peter!

[Peter Laidler]

Off subject a bit but I always wondered why our rifles had those recesses at the top rear of the body (BAR, thread14). The little knibs on the cover that fitted into those recesses/cut-outs were always snapping off due to fatigue fracturing. Eventually we just filed the sheared edges clean and carried on using them. Only much later did I realise that the Canadian rifles used a short cover and these knibs and recesses kept the cover to the rear.

Were the short covers used continuously from start to finish BAR?

[browningautorifle]

the short covers used continuously

Yes, without the fold of steel they slid forward of course. Yours wouldn't meed them except to keep from cutting one's self on the corner or folding it during mishandling. We used them throughout.

[bigduke6]

Don't want to bump the thread as it is interesting, but the mention of bayonets, if anyone is looking for one of the trial bayonets marked X2E1, send me a PM, not looking for a kings ransom so don't be shy.

[nzl1a1collector]

New Zealand used a mix of Australian and British Spare parts, for the majority of its service the spares were sourced from Lithgow. I have a price list somewhere from the early 80's.... owch things weren't cheap especially when you go into the tools and fixtures, no wonder New Zealand started producing its own version of Combo Tool, Pull Through and Cleaning Kit Rolls. I think the British spares came from supplies from Singapore when NZ withdrew from Singapore they were brought back to New Zealand. Certainly in the late 80's we were purchasing tools and SUIT sight Mounts from the UK.... From Manroy Engineering.

As to the differences between the rifles there are a myriad of manufacturing variations to go with the basic differences such as Furniture, Top Covers, TMH, Sights, Carrying Handles, Sling Swivels.

Top to Bottom
Australian
British (BSA)
Canadian

[mrclark303]

Thanks for the pics Kevin, they really illustrate the machining difference's with the three rifles.

I would think you must have one of the only C1's in NZ mate! Very nice..