Repair Barrels

[Mk VII]

No, they were for the Ministry's inspectors, not the Army's working in the field.

[Claven2]

No, they were for the Ministry's inspectors, not the Army's working in the field.

speculating, but perhaps Chamber and Rifling as the out of spec issue?

[Surpmil]

So it was explicit that these were defective, but new production rather than defective new and/or salvaged?

Slightly tangential, but bearing in mind the recent thread on the scrap and salvage campaigns in WWI and the vast numbers of weapons recovered in various states of repair, is it known whether private industry was involved in the salvage and refurbishment of small arms?

By 1918 it may have been found cheaper and a better use of manpower to hand over some of that work to private industry: a soldier on the Continent requires to be housed, fed, clothed and cared for whereas a civilian employee of a private company involves such costs only indirectly. A man fit enough for service overseas is generally fit enough for some form of front line service and fit men were beginning to be in short supply by 1917, to say nothing of 1918.

[Alan de Enfield]

Slightly tangential, but bearing in mind the recent thread on the scrap and salvage campaigns in WWI and the vast numbers of weapons recovered in various states of repair, is it known whether private industry was involved in the salvage and refurbishment of small arms?

The presentation did say that a commercial Limited company (owned by the MOD) was set up to undertake the salvage of fats, but no mention of boots, firearm's etc.

[Mk VII]

I saw nothing to say these were salvage, the whole trend of it implied they were new.

[Surpmil]

Without going back now and looking again, I feel pretty sure it was on a much wider basis than just fats, or "dripping" as they liked to describe it, but it wasn't made clear what exactly the company set up in 1918 was handling.

[Alan de Enfield]

I cannot imagine that they would employ civilians to go and collect up scrap in the Front Lines, or No Mans Land and maybe, not even behind the lines, so I'd have thought that any military equipment would have to be collected by Soldiers.

Any waste 'back at barracks', or 'stations at home' could be easily handled by civilians without putting them at risk.

The historical pictures show that the rifle salvage seem to have been organised by the military.
The third picture is embarkation, leaving the rifles (presumambly) for incoming troops


WW1 Battlefield pick-ups




WW2 Battlefield pick-ups





WW2 Handing over rifles prior to embarkation

[Surpmil]

I would think you're correct that salvage in actual battle areas would have been done only by what we now call "combat troops" or by labour battalions, but in some cases I suspect there was an intention to keep labour battalions away from small arms and ammunition.

However, the handling and cleaning of salvaged rifles behind the battle areas was what I was referring to. You saw the reference to "oil baths" as the immediate treatment of salvaged rifles? Obviously the fastest and easiest, really the only way, to as far as possible arrest corrosion and decay on rifles that were wet, muddy and with probably mostly dirty barrels which would soon begin to corrode from primer residues if not cleaned properly. It would have been a bit of a race against time to clean such rifles before they became FTR cases. The methods of the time would have been very labour intensive and so it was the question of whether civilian labour under civilian control would have been used at any point in that process that I was getting at.

The second and third photos you show are Dunkirk disembarkation photos I suspect: both taken at the same time and place and the way most of the men are looking off and upwards suggests air attacks or activity at the time. The vessel they have presumably disembarked from appears to be a destroyer; not the usual transport vessel for troops.

[Alan de Enfield]

The second and third photos you show are Dunkirk disembarkation photos I suspect: both taken at the same time and place and the way most of the men are looking off and upwards suggests air attacks or activity at the time. The vessel they have presumably disembarked from appears to be a destroyer; not the usual transport vessel for troops.

I think that it may in fact be embarkation rather than disembarkation.
It looks to me as if they ready to board having handed in their rifles.


Armourers at work in Calais .................



Armourers in their mobile workshop, behind Vimy Ridge May 1917

[Surpmil]

I think that it may in fact be embarkation rather than disembarkation.
It looks to me as if they ready to board having handed in their rifles.

Possibly, except that the men who are or appear to standing on the destroyer or the gangway(s) are all facing towards to the quay, as though getting off rather than on. Many do not seem to have rifles at all and that being so, one would expect such "spare" rifles to have been handed out to them for embarkation?

Possibly the collection of rifles from men who had done exactly that: picked up loose weapons or weapons not actually issued to them and brought them back? Those who have rifles don't appear to be turning them in; perhaps their issue weapons?

Anyway, it seems pretty clear this was Dover Marine Docks from the roofs shown: Arrival of the Unknown Warrior at Dover Marine Railway Station at the Western Docks on 10 November, 1920 Stock Photo - Alamy

The apparent absence of officers or NCOs is interesting.