A genuine No.4 Mk1 "T" that is not marked T or TR?

[Peter Laidler]

It looks like a repro bracket now I've seen it close up

[218bee]

For what it's worth, I have an all-matching BSA T rifle with a clear "T" but no "TR" ever stamped...It has all the H&H markings, and the scope matches the stock, but the absence of the TR has always been a mystery to me....

[MJ1]

I think it's a keeper.

Nice
..MJ..

[Roger Payne]

The rifle is right. I've seen a lot & owned a few 1943 BSA's & the markings show a progression through the course of the year's production. By about AU or AV they have emerged into the typical set of marks as described in Peter's book, though rifles serialled earlier in the year's run may show various 'deficiencies' in the supposedly mandatory markings. If you want to see other rifles that are 'right' but do not conform to the text book markings, then just look at any Savage, Maltby 41, BSA 41 -- all of which were set up by H&H.

ATB

[Peter Laidler]

I agree Roger. There's no such thing as 'having seen 'em all' when it comes to No4T's. But it's right that towards the middle of the conversion programme, things had settled down to a norm

[Roger Payne]

Thx Peter. I just noticed something else about the bracket -- it's one of mine! Not a very pretty one I admit - but it's from one of the old (early) batches I had done. I never sent them out to the public 'fettled up' like that, but I did (& still do) sell them to people in the trade 'as is' if they want them as they come to me from the machinists so that they can do the final prettying up themselves & so save a little money. I suspect that bracket to be one of those, sold into the trade to someone who wanted to do the final cleaning up themselves. The give-away is the two elliptical marks at the rear; one on the top clamp & an identical one lining up with it on the top of the bracket 'side wall'. They were put on by the machinists presumably originally as a circular datum for splitting the brackets to separate the two top clamps. In the process the circle became two ellipses! How about that! Clear as mud!

ATB

[burpgun]

I really am very fortunate to have this piece of history. I stumbled onto it by chance, and wanted it the moment I saw it. Mr. Payne, your mount may not be finished to your normal standard but it is "dead on". Amazingly to me, it also maintains a useable zero when removed and re-attached. It certainly looks the part to my untrained eye. Of course, I wish I had the proper scope and mount but the scope mounted to it is a clear 4X with a heavy post reticule. It might be interesting to create some handloads and explore this rifles true accuracy potential when time allows. All you Lee-Enfield hunters out there now have a new fanatic in your ranks.

I thought I would send one more picture of this rifle. One of my favorite aspects of this rifle. I can see the sniper resting in his lay-up on a rainy night, during a difficult mission. Thinking of his loved one, he carefully carves her name in the stock next to his cheek.

[No4Mk1(T)]

I’m just throwing this out there as a possibility:
This almost looks like one of the “Less Scope” rifles that may have been later fitted with another No4T rifles butt and one of Roger’s mounts. It would be interesting to know what rifle serial number is on the socket area of the buttstock.
I know most people associate Savage rifles with the “Less Scope” variant but I recently sold a No4T that had every correct “T” mark less the T and scope number on the butt.

[Roger Payne]

Thanks N4 Mk1 (T). How's the weather on The Island at the moment? Was your scopeless No4 (T) a 44 BSA? I only ask as the relatively few non-Savage 'less scope' rifles I have seen or heard of have all been 44 BSA's.........I think that in general the atypical or non-standard markings on 43 & earlier rifles is generally indicative of the early stage of evolution of the marking system, although as they say, 'never say never & never say always when talking about Enfields!'

Incidentally burpgun, I'm pleased the bracket does the business -- I've always been a stickler on the machining. Also, I have AQ 93XX in my collection!
ATB

[jimmybob9]

That Jean lady must get around. I have a 44 lithy I Mk III with "JEAN" marked into the butt stock as well!!