Enfield No4(T) "Trials Rifle" scope brackets

[KARLOS]

Edited by Moderator...

Karlos ...

You are still trying to post images using the IMG pic code, referencing your own hard disk on your local computer. As I've said to you many times, the IMG pic code is ONLY useful for referencing pics stored on a computer somewhere on the Internet, other than your own local computer. Again, please read the following links carefully, or send your pics to badger@milsurps.com and I'll post them for you.

How do I upload or post images? (click here)

How do I use PhotoBucket to display images? (click here)

How do I post pics? - A tutorial by Wally (click here)


Thank you...

[Surpmil]

Among the stuff I bought from H. W. English in 1986/7 was a couple of very early brackets. One was heavily pitted, but had a Trials No4 SN that I can't recall, the other had no number and was sold with my first Trials T, that now graces these pages I see. It was unlike any other bracket I've seen, in that it was the rounded Rose Bros. type, but very smoothly cast and finished, and mostly it was very well cast rather than polished up. It also browned in the old gun-trade sort of way and had no maker's mark. Anyway, the provenance was unimpeachable from that time and place.

It went with the rifle and an HBM scope No3057, marked 1941 and the only such marking I've heard of on an HBM scope. From Peter's research it would be the 57th they made, as they were assigned a block of numbers beginning at 3000.

I also have around here a bracket cradle cap for the cheesehead screws that you gave me back around then Peter. I couldn't find it just now, but what is odd is that it has a cradle number in three digits, whereas that very early bracket I mentioned before had two digit numbers and in a larger font. So...perhaps it was Elmbank who were making the cheesehead variety who got blitzed and had to give up production....if I remember Peter's books correctly, perhaps they had made a good quantity, of which not many survived the bombing, which would explain the higher cradle numbers?

Yes, still plenty of little mysteries out there still like the large "GF" seen engraved in some brackets, alongside the smaller "JG" for Rose Bros....

Getting back to Karlos' rifle, the number on the wrist of the butt should be the scope number, not the rifle number, and the wood looks too pristine to me, and too high lustre.

It'll be interesting to see the other photos. They can be cropped down to save space as well Badger. Those 10 Megapixel cameras are really a bit over the top aren't they?

[jmoore]

Surpmil, was the bracket sold to complete the package or was it in addition to the Enfield No4(T)?

[Peter Laidler]

The large GF, AL and a few others have been identified ad Gujerat Forces and Allambrahad Forces of the Indian STATE Forces.

Also found on Thompson guns

[Surpmil]

Surpmil, was the bracket sold to complete the package or was it in addition to the Enfield No4(T)?

Hi, I'm not sure if I'm understanding correctly, but the scope and bracket were sold with the rifle but priced separately as they were not original to it and were sold as such, of course.

[KARLOS]

In the pic of the stock on my Trials T posted by badger, the number is indeed the rifle number. A couple of years ago i was advised to call Peter Laidler to see if he could tell me anything, he told me that some rifles were sent for trials in India pre-war, these the rifles had their number stamped on the wrist of the butt. With a number in this position, i am guessing the scope number was overlooked when converted to T spec. Every part except the rear pad and the swivel screws have Enfield inspectors stamps. The photo is indeed a bit shiny but the flash on my camera is to blame. Roger Payne has examined this rifle , early last year at an arms fair in Birmingham, and he was happy with its originality (if he can't remember, it had a Canadian bracket) Just out of interest a pic of this rifle was posted by crunch on 11.25.09 of Sgt Jim Dix of No 3 army Commando jumping from a landing craft, he had that rifle from Dec 41, " forgot" to hand it in at the end of the war, and had it until approx 1977, when he surrendered the rifle to a good friend of mine, a R.E.M.E armourer, happily he sold it to me in Dec 2005. The rifle is genuinely unfired since 1945.

[Peter Laidler]

Hi Karlos...... can you remind me where/when I stated that some trials rifles had their serial number stamped on the wrist of the butt, where the telescope number is supposed to reside? Or when I said that they were sent to India pre war for trials? I'm confused.....................

[Surpmil]

Karlos, that's very interesting, thanks.

Do you have some more photos of the rifle? I can help cropping, sizing and posting them if you want to email me at ?

[KARLOS]

Hello Peter, The phone conversation i am referring to took place, (if my memory is correct) on 14th Feb 08. as i was calling you at home around 8pm i appreciated the fact that you gave me your time on a cold call, so i tried not to take up too much of your time. You definitely said that the No 4 rifles that went to India on trials could be identified by their number stamped in this position, i did not ask why as my area of interest is from the T conversion onwards. Could the reason be easy identification of individual rifles ? My rifle is A0893, but without a magnifying glass the butt socket number looks like 895 or 898. I have also called you much more recently regarding the originality of a L42 spec rifle with Singapore Police Force markings ( Rifle No R 32823 based on a 44 BSA. T and L1A1 Scope No 22524) you stated that it could not be an Enfield conversion without the Enfield markings. so, does anyone out there know anything about S.P.F weapons ? Did they carry out their own conversions ? Does anyone else have one ?

[Roger Payne]

Hi Karlos. Sorry for the tardy reply - have been 'over there' again. Yes, I recall the rifle & have no qualms about it being a genuine Trials T.

ATB