My Saginaw S'G'

[Maniac]

Great S'G', Curt, I must have missed it the first time around. Thanks for the pix.
Mine was made toward the end of the fitst IP/S'G' serial # range, the only IP part in mine is the mag catch. All the remaining parts are S'G' except for the 'IN' marked safety. When I bought my S'G' it came with an informal data sheet which detailed the parts according to War Baby!. It there was a circle in red ink drawn around the safety stating that the 'IN' marking was incorrect. I couldn't figure why it would have that safety but the rest of the carbine looked great so I bought it. I subsequently bought an 'IP-A' marked safety from a respected forum member intending on swapping it out for the "incorrect" 'IN' marked when I noticed on page 429 in War Baby! for S'G's wartime subcontractors that a safety with unknown markings was contracted to the IBM Corp's Electro-matic Typewriters, Inc., Div.. Then on page 453 regarding NPM's subcontractors it says that the 'IN' marked safety was furnished by IBM Corp's Electric Writing Machine Division. Based on this info and the parts and condition of my S'G', I'm convinced that the "IN' marked safety is original to it. Anybody want to buy a nice original 'IP-A' marked push safety?

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[USGI]

Great S'G', Curt, I must have missed it the first time around. Thanks for the pix.
Mine was made toward the end of the fitst IP/S'G' serial # range, the only IP part in mine is the mag catch. All the remaining parts are S'G' except for the 'IN' marked safety. When I bought my S'G' it came with an informal data sheet which detailed the parts according to War Baby!. It there was a circle in red ink drawn around the safety stating that the 'IN' marking was incorrect. I couldn't figure why it would have that safety but the rest of the carbine looked great so I bought it. I subsequently bought an 'IP-A' marked safety from a respected forum member intending on swapping it out for the "incorrect" 'IN' marked when I noticed on page 429 in War Baby! for S'G's wartime subcontractors that a safety with unknown markings was contracted to the IBM Corp's Electro-matic Typewriters, Inc., Div.. Then on page 453 regarding NPM's subcontractors it says that the 'IN' marked safety was furnished by IBM Corp's Electric Writing Machine Division. Based on this info and the parts and condition of my S'G', I'm convinced that the "IN' marked safety is original to it. Anybody want to buy a nice original 'IP-A' marked push safety?

The way I interpret War Baby on this is that the "IN" safety is known to be the one that was supplied by that sub-contractor to NPM, and that the marking on the ones they supplied to Grand Rapids is not certain. By the way, what is the marking just behind the post of your front sight? I can't make out if it's an "N" or almost looks like a "W"? Does your sight have a number stamped on the left side of the base? Very nice S'G' I must say!

[Maniac]

The way I interpret War Baby on this is that the "IN" safety is known to be the one that was supplied by that sub-contractor to NPM, and that the marking on the ones they supplied to Grand Rapids is not certain. By the way, what is the marking just behind the post of your front sight? I can't make out if it's an "N" or almost looks like a "W"? Does your sight have a number stamped on the left side of the base? Very nice S'G' I must say!

There are no other stampings on the front sight other than an "N" behind the post.
I interpreted War Baby the same way you did in that it's obvious that while Ruth had evidence that S'G' received some safeties from IBM Corps. Electro-matic Typewriters, Inc., Div, he didn't know what the markings were, hence his question mark in that regard. However, when I observed in War Baby! that the 'IN' marked safeties that were delivered to NPM from IBM Corps. Electric Writing Machine Division it seemed probable that the 'IN' marked safety in my S'G' was original. All the other marked parts in my S'G' are either IP or S'G'. What do you you other S'G' aficionados think of my theory? I've been procrastinating on sending the Carbine Club the data sheet for my S'G', maybe when I do I'll be able to get confirmation from them one way or the other as to whether other original S'G' carbines have been reported with 'IN' marked safeties. Here's a link I found yesterday about IBM's typewriter divisions circa WWII:
http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/ex...b_history.html

[USGI]

This is really interesting! I recently purchased what I believe to be an original S'G' that has a s/n in the 1829XXX range. It has many of the same parts markings as yours, but not all of them. My front sight has a number "7" stamped on the LH side of the base, and the "N" is upright as viewed from the back of the sight. Your "N" looks like it might be what's referred to as a "sidewards N" or Z. Most think these sights were supplied by two different manufacturers, but I think they were both made by Niedner Rifle Co. Where is the IN marking located on your safety, and is it Type 2 Var 2 plain? Warbaby! states that the IN safety is marked on the inside somehere as supplied to NPM. Mine has this same type of safety, but I can't find a mark on it anywhere. It has really rough semi-circular machine marks on both ends, and there is possilbly a light mark on one end, but I can't make out what it says. Thanks, Bob

[Mikey51]

For your consideration Gentlemen, Mike.

[Curt]

Mine also had the M2 type mag catch and a 30 rd SEY mag in it when I bought it. I too bought a IP-B catch from a forum member.

[Maniac]

Mine also had the M2 type mag catch and a 30 rd SEY mag in it when I bought it. I too bought a IP-B catch from a forum member.

Now I'm really confused about the type III mag catch pictured on your S'G', is that the one you swapped out for the type IIa “B-IP” marked one you bought?
In my case if I'd have paid a bit more attention to War Baby! I could have avoided the hassle (i.e. whining, begging, spending $) of obtaining & now selling what I thought was the correct "IP-A" safety. I'm learning that War Baby! doesn't necessarily spell out everything that is right for a particular carbine, one sometimes has to put 2+2 together themselves.

I'll stick a pic of my safety with my others on my earlier post.

[Curt]

correct I swapped the catch out I am not sure the "type" it had the extra thumb on it for the 30 rd mag. I put the type II B-IP in it. I think the stock mod,catch and 30 rd mag were all part of a field mod kit. The rest of the rifle was never messed with and doesn't appear to be used much.

[jmg257]

nevermind!

[kar66]

Send in the data sheet to the Carbine Club. I think you will get confirmation on your safety. A friend of mine told me about one he had with only imporperly marked safety. I told him he should leave it alone for now. We later found one in the Carbine of the month with the same safety. Bill