stacking swivel

[jmoore]

I guess it seemed like a good idea at the time...

So, thinking about it, it would seem that piling swivels came along about when bayonets were no longer semi-permanently attatched features of the military long arm, yes? Or did something else make this feature desirable?

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[gsimmons]

I think piling swivels came about when rifles got shorter and the socket bayonet fell out of favour.

[jmoore]

I think piling swivels came about when rifles got shorter and the socket bayonet fell out of favour.


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Shorter hadn't occurred to me. Why would that make a difference?

So here's a quiz: What's the earliest military use of the stacking swivel? And I don't have the answer! Seems to me that in the US, one of the trapdoor rifles may have been first. Don't think it was the M1866. Can't remember if my M1868 has one or not.

[gsimmons]

If I recall didn't the model 1888 with the rod bayonet have a double swivel on the upper band?

[jmoore]

If I recall didn't the model 1888 with the rod bayonet have a double swivel on the upper band?


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I'm pretty sure they do. But trapdoors are definitely NOT my forte. Can't keep one (in 45-70) for any length of time. THe various 50-70s and the 1865 model are interesting as transitional weapons from muzzleloading to breechloading, But the 1873 was obsolete when adopted, or close enough. But trapdoor fans won't like me for saying it. Good rifle, but it just shouldn't have been used any length of time.

At any rate, I'm coming up blank on what first used the split swivel for "camping" purposes.

But no surprise, it's been busy!

[Joe W]

Not sure when stacking swivels appeared but this is a Mathew Brady photograph taken at Petersburg Va. using the bayonet to stack rifles.

[jmoore]

Yes, the end of the muzzle loading era (and slow reloads) meant the end of the "convienence" of using the bayonet as a stacking device. But who had the bright idea of adding the swivel?

Not the French:




Even through the 1880 modification of the 1866 Gras.

They did adopt a stud thing, but not a swivel.

[Joe W]

After searching internet the best I can do is find reference to the stacking swivel being attached to the barrel band of the 1873 trapdoor carbine.




********************* See # 10 ********************************

Model 1873 Rifle & Carbine

The following information is taken from: Desription and Rules for the Management of the Springfield Rifle, Carbine and Army Revolver, 1874.
During the year 1873, the Board of Officers appointed in pursuance of the "Act of Congress, - approved June 6, 1872 - for the purpose of selecting a breech system for the military service of the United States," reported in favor of the "Springfield" system. The minor details as to the caliber, form of chamber, ammunition, etc., were also determined by a Board of Ordnance Officers convened for that purpose. In the following pages will be found a full description of this system in all its details, as adopted by the War Department. The Springfield Rifle, Carbine .45", is essentually similar to the "Springfield Musket, Model 1870," which for some time past has been in the hands of troops for trial. The following changes have been made:
1st. The barrel has been made of low steel instead of iron, and the caliber has been reduced from .50" to .45". The rifling consists of three plain concentric grooves equal in width to the lands, .005" deep, with a uniform twist of one turn in twenty-two inches.
2nd. The lock plate has been reduced in thickness, and has no bevel on the edge.
3rd. A rounder shape has been given to the hammer.
4th. The heads of the tang screw, tumbler screw and side screws have been rounded off, and the side screws have been slightly shortened.
5th. A screw has been substituted for the rivet of the guard bow swivel.
6th. The shape of the rear sight has been changed, and it has been set further forward on the barrel.
7th. The metal parts of the rifle have been browned or blackened.
8th. The stock has been rounded off near the lock plate, and on its upper edges, as far forward as the lower band.
9th. A number of cannelures have been cut near the small end of the ramrod, in order to give a better grip to the fingers in using it.

************************************************** ************************************************** ***************************************
10th. The shape of the upper band and of the gun sling swivel have been changed, and an open or stacking swivel has been added for the purpose of stacking arms without using the bayonet.

************************************************** ************************************************** ****************************************

The changes in the carbine follow those above indicated in the description of the rifle.

[jmoore]

I did a bit of looking in Flayderman's today, and the first mention that I found was concerning the 1873 Cadet rifle. Oddly, no mention of a stacking swivel on either the standard rifle or carbine.

[Johnny Peppers]

Model 1873 Springfield with the sling swivel and stacking swivel on the same band.