"Unissued" (not JJCO) Lithgow

[Homer]

SSJ - copper 2 x small brass screws at least that's what my Mk III's have sometimes there is shim material behind either plate to get the right fitment.
Homer - I hope that is not a spot of rust at about 17:30 just @ 1/4 " inside the bore on your Mk III

Could very well be, don't own it anymore though.

[Colonel Enfield]

Personally I would be extremely wary of an "unissued" 1941-dated Lithgow because Australia had been well and truly involved in WWII for two years by that point and things would soon be heating up in the country's backyard (particularly New Guinea) so the Australian troops needed every rifle they could get. Add to that Australia still using SMLEs in Korea a few years after WWII finished and it just doesn't seem likely a rifle of that year would somehow end up in storage without an exceptionally good reason (production archetype for that year for SAF Lithgow, for example).

I could see a late 1944 or early 1945-dated Lithgow SMLE managing to avoid being issued and eventually surplussed off, but a 1941? I'd be taking that with a Himalayan salt mine.*


*And having said all that, I'm sure someone will be along presently to show us pics of their genuinely unissued 1941 Lithgow SMLE Mk III*, complete with papers and/or an Advisory Board thumbs up.

[Homer]

Personally I would be extremely wary of an "unissued" 1941-dated Lithgow because Australia had been well and truly involved in WWII for two years by that point and things would soon be heating up in the country's backyard (particularly New Guinea) so the Australian troops needed every rifle they could get. Add to that Australia still using SMLEs in Korea a few years after WWII finished and it just doesn't seem likely a rifle of that year would somehow end up in storage without an exceptionally good reason (production archetype for that year for SAF Lithgow, for example).

I could see a late 1944 or early 1945-dated Lithgow SMLE managing to avoid being issued and eventually surplussed off, but a 1941? I'd be taking that with a Himalayan salt mine.*


*And having said all that, I'm sure someone will be along presently to show us pics of their genuinely unissued 1941 Lithgow SMLE Mk III*, complete with papers and/or an Advisory Board thumbs up.

Ha your small print is very funny. Never say never with enfields. I hate the word unissued, but there are 1941/42/43/44 and 45 dated lithgows around that appear almost as new, as if unissued i suppose.

No pictures though.

[muffett.2008]

Just my two bobs worth, Bitza.
OA and BA stamped parts were not available until late '42, wood is too pristine, even for unissued storage racks.
Probably worth a look for JJCO mark on the foresight, cleverley hidden behind the nosecap.
Attachment 53257

[MRoberts06]

I took the nose cap off and didn't see anything. I've gone over everything twice with a flashlight, and still no JJ markings. I'm fairly certain this rifle either isn't a JJCO, or the stamp was shallow enough to have been filed off. But the dates on the wood don't match, so it was all added later. Glad to know.

Alright, anyone have any ideas as to where this pristine barrel and bolt face came from?

[Peter Laidler]

I always yawn and roll my eyes skywards when I hear the 'unissued' word simply because having been in the system for a long time, I know and often repeat an old saying related to me by a LONG serving quartermaster. Who told me that items in storeage are simply an expensive way of storing fresh air. Not only that, it's a damned xxxxxxg expensive way of storing fresh air too. We just don't do it. And furthermore, when we do, we ROTATE the stockpiles.
That's only my experience in these matters not having been a stores bloke but.......

As for how a bolt face is soooooooo gleaming. Simple. Armourers do and teach it every day, Clean it. Barrels are an entirely different matter and I have explained here several times, barrels are measured in quarters-of-life. Generally this only relates to machine gun barrels in the small arms world but applies equally to rifle barrels. Given a barrel life of 7-9000 rounds that drops off dramatically towards the end but remains pretty-well constantly perfect for the first couple of thousand, who but only an experienced Armourer could safely categorise a barrel in its first quarter of life. I'll tell you what.......... It's not me and I call myself fairly well experienced at barrel viewing. But those real experts, like Corporal Taffy Txxxxx could. They could view a perfectly clean, crisp barrel even without the use of gauges and put into, say, its late 2nd quarter of life.

What some call pristine, a barrel viewer might look into, both eyes open, take a sharp intake of breath, rotate it a few times on the rollers and............ Well.......

That's the difference between an amateur looking at a barrel and an Armourer viewing a barrel. The question was asked, and the answer given.

[MRoberts06]

So someone -with the correct machinery- took the time to polish the bolt head, rebore a barrel, and then attach it to a new action, stamp them both with matching numbers and the correct proofs, just to pass the rifle off as unissued?

That's a little bit on the far edge of Occam's razor.

[Peter Laidler]

No....., listen again MR. You simply polish the bolthead as Armourers and shooters have been doing ever since they were issued with emery sticks for JUST that (and other) purposes.

It is only YOUR word - and I say this carefully - as an amateur that your barrel is unused/unissued. Just let a skilled 'viewer' and with the gauges be the best judge of that, please! Same as a 'new' action! Where are your gauges that tell you that. I'll let you borrow mine if you like.

Matching numbers............ Of COURSE they are.......... That's how they are! That's what we do! That's what makes them a matched set! Armourers replace and refit bolts, properly of course and then renumber with monotonous regularity

Proofed......... Of course it is.......... they all are prior to being sent out to Ordnance stores. Barrel, bolt assembly and body!

[Son]

I'll stick with my original opinion. I think most of the contributions so far go towards the same train of thought.

It's a rifle that likely was sportered or had woodwork and fittings missing that has been put back to standard post service. The woodwork is newer than the rest, not fitted or finished. Just to add here, if it was unissued, it would not have an "S" butt on it either. Some small parts have been refinished, the nosecap isn't original. The receiver, barrel, bolt and sight leaf are all numbered together, and I think even though some of the stamping looks questionable, we have all seen worse. The bolthead is just another part like the rear swivel... I have a jar full of unmarked pristine bolt heads... The bore may well have had little use, or been very well cared for. This may help it shoot well, but may not have as much influence as the foreend if it hasn't been fitted right.

It's a very nice looking rifle, take it out and stick a few rounds through it. Take care of it and you will not be able to pick the wear for at least the first 3 to 4 thousand rounds. I hope it shoots well!

[MRoberts06]

I meant "new" action, as in the action is unoriginal to that barrel. Not necessarily "new" like "brand new".

As for the matching numbers, someone in an earlier post questioned the authenticity of the s/n on the barrel and the receiver. I was applying his hypothesis -that the s/n are both civilian re-stamped as a forgery to match- to yours. Previous posters have said they don't believe this rifle is a refurb: what do you think? I think we've established it isn't an unissued No.1, but it's in a helluva lot better shape than any of my other milsurps. If it is an aftermarket attempt to pass off a used rifle as new, someone put a MST of effort into it. There are more plausible explanations.

But who is "we", regarding "that's what we do!"? Armorers?

I know that barrel, bolt assembly, and body are all stamped with matching numbers upon assembly. I'm not quite as much of an amateur as you seem to think: I'm new to this thread and forum, but that doesn't mean I'm a neophyte when it comes to rifles, old and new. People commonly make that assumption on new members of all these gun forums: "This guy is new to here, he must've just bought his first rifle yesterday."