Korean War: Frozen clothing myth debunked

[DaveHH]

You are right, but if you watch the Outdoor Channel, those guys will plug a Whitetail with a 300 WMG and they take off and run for the same distance. The only real drop dead shot is the neck or liver. I've shot a few big mulies with an 8mm mod 98. I hit one twice in the liver from about 100 yds, it literally blew his liver to pieces, he dropped like a rock.

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[Bruce McAskill]

My old insurance agent was a Marine and was in the march from the Chosen to UN lines. He said it didn't matter what rifle one had they all froze up from the cold. They had to pee on them to keep them firing and then just fired them as much as possible to heat them up and to evaporate any moisture still on the weapon. The Garand had more range then the carbines but the carbines worked just as well as the Garand's. He never had or saw a problem with the carbines not stopping the enemy.

[imarangemaster]

My dad was on Iwo Jima with a carbine, and my uncles in other areas of the PTO with carbines. They all liked it, and said it worked great for them. All of their fighting was up close. As far as the carbine being equal to a 357, I think you will find it quite a bit more powerful than a 357. A 110 carbine round generates 1970 FPS and 960 ft lbs ME at the muzzle and at 100 yards delivers 1567 FPS and 600 ft lbs ME. The 357 only gives that much at the muzzle (what the carbine gives at 100 yards) even out of a 357 carbine!

[TDH]

I have found that my Inland was a lot more accurate at 200 yards than I thought it would be. Would I want to use it at that distance in combat? Only if I had no other choice. As stated it was intended as a personal defense weapon and not a main battle rifle. As far as lack of penetration goes I heard it was the thick quilted clothing and that's not to say it didn't penetrate but perchance it didn't penetrate far enough to do mortal damage. I was also told that when it got real cold some would take all the grease/oil out of there weapons and shave graphite from a pencil into the actions to solve the problem of freezing and or sluggishness of the grease/oil.

[Wineman]

How about the reverse with the PPSh with a 90 grain bullet at 1,400 fps that was pretty deadly when up close and personal? Remember that the AR-15 with the original 1:14 twist would not stabilize 55 grain bullets under arctic conditions. Robert Service had it right about the cold doing strange things 107 years ago when he wrote "The Cremation of Sam Mcgee".

Dave

[TDH]

Wineman that was what supposedly made the M16 so deadly the bullet tumbled and IF it hit you you never knew where it would exit as it tumbled through the body but they also found that they couldn't hit anything with a precision shot if they needed to so they changed it to 1 in 9 and now it's accurate but you lost the devastating tumble effect so now you have a .22 battle round. the Russians solved that problem with the 5.45x39 it's a FMJ but the tip under the jacket is hollow so it flies great and when it hits the tip bends and then it tumbles.

[DaveHH]

The M16 went from 1-14 twist to 1-12 twist for the 55 gr bullet. All of the Vietnam era rifles had 1-12 chrome lined barrels. 1-9 barrels came out after the 62gr bullets.

[TDH]

Dave you are probably right on the twist rates so I won't argue. What I do know for sure is I didn't like that plastic piece of junk when they put one in my hands in '69 and I don't like them now. I always used to say you couldn't give me on. Now I say give it here and then I'll trade it in on a good rifle. But that's me for what it's worth.