Pls Help with questions regarding British 1980's gun laws

[Frederick303]

I read someplace that the total number of self loading rifle owners permitted in 1988 was ~ 4,700. Average number of arms owned was supposed to be 2 rifles. Not many rifles affected in 1988.

[shaka911]

My understanding is that the rifles were converted to fire the 410 brass round issued by the military, they were used in India around 1945-48 as riot control rifles firing birdshot at the feet of the prisoner. Unless they have been certified converted to 410 G then they should not be fired. Many were imported into the US and still are available here, I have 3 in my collection, but it has been converted to fire the 410 shotgun round. I have collected Lee Enfields for a number of years. They were also converted to shotgun to comply with the draconian gun laws in the UK. I hope this helps

[mrclark303]

The old smooth bored service rifles do turn up still on occasion, as they weren't individually registered back in the day, the owner had a Shot Gun certificate and could acquire what ever they liked .... As a result, when the ban came in some never got handed in. I came across a smooth bore Garand (Birmingham Proofed with "SMOOTH" stamped alongside on the barrel from memory) propped up in the corner of someone's living room and covered in thick dust a few years back, the owner inherited the piece from a deceased estate, no one was interested in it and everyone just assumed it had been deactivated!

After a few phone calls, it went to a Sec5 dealer to store and Police check and on to a Sec5 theatre/film prop company from there I hear. (I think they thread the muzzle for a gas restrictor and shoot blanks with such things)
At least it wasn't destroyed, these days it most certainly would be, unless it made it to an official collection.

[Peter Laidler]

I'm afraid that you're not comparing like with like Shaky (thread 22). The UK gun laws relating to shotguns of the era we're talking about didn't mention any bore or diameter. It simply had to be smooth - and if I'm not mistaken, over 18 " originally. Although that changed to 24" later. But anyone out there please feel free to correct this last bit

[Roger Payne]

Yep, that's how I managed to get my Brandt mortar & IIRC I also had a smoothbored Grb 39 anti tank rifle - the type converted to fire schiessbeker hollow charge grenades. It seems a millenium ago that we could so easily own such firearms.

[MikeVee]

I seem to recall seeing a chap here in the US of A who managed to make a 2.5 inch .410 feed out of a modified lee Enfield magazine. My recollection is that he took a No 4 magazines (not sure why)and modified the 2 forward lips so that it was in essence feeding the round directly up into the chamber. I seem to recall that when looking at mod (saw it at a gun show) he had so configured the gun that he could get two rounds to feed in the magazine but no more. I seem to recall he said it was easy to modify the lips of the magazine shell to feed one round, but that he had to do some modifications to the follower to get 2 rounds to feed.

I also seem to recall him saying you could not get the magazine to feed any more than that, had to do with how the follower angle changed from feeding .303 rounds. He has the gun set up for hunting (it was sported) and as such I think that was more than enough capacity.

There are some .410 303 cases based rounds from Pakistan that might feed a bit better.

Thanks for sharing that memory. Such a .410 MK 4 weapon could be used here in CT to hunt small game including public land. Hitting some moving clay targets would be more fun than the same old bulls eye. Skeet doubles would be worth bragging about.

[newcastle]

I have a couple of 410 No.1 conversions from India. Both single shot. To do a double one has to hold the second shell in ones mouth and practice, but it can be done. I managed it a couple of times only. More humorous were the screams of NOOOOOOOO and running range officials when I set up at the clay range in San Francisco and they saw what looked like a 303 being used to shoot at flying clays within city limits😀

[Colonel Enfield]

I've always been really surprised no-one put any serious work into turning the Ishapore .410 shotguns into repeaters, especially in Australia after the 1997 arms law changes. Surely it wouldn't be impractical for a gunsmith to design and have legally manufactured a magazine which would fit the guns and function effectively?

Then again, I'm not aware of anyone making functional magazines for the .22 No 2 Mk IV trainers either, and that's always struck me as another obvious candidate for such an endeavour.

[MikeVee]

I have a couple of 410 No.1 conversions from India. Both single shot. To do a double one has to hold the second shell in ones mouth and practice, but it can be done. I managed it a couple of times only. More humorous were the screams of NOOOOOOOO and running range officials when I set up at the clay range in San Francisco and they saw what looked like a 303 being used to shoot at flying clays within city limits😀

Oh yes that reaction ! Thanks I have a Winchester model 9410 and it does attract attention. When pointed correctly will break a target or sometimes two after a quick lever action. I won't try with my Mossberg bolt action even though it has a magazine. Shotgun at port arms and a cartridge in your mouth ! You must have looked rough and ready

[newcastle]

I am LOLing recalling it now. One of the 410s is a bit rough and one of my planned projects is to try and convert it into a repeater by removing the wood block and tweaking a magazine. It's behind the 223 No.4 and the L1A1 magazine sourcing and blocking in order of priority at present though.