Gun show carbines

[painter777]

firstflabn,
I love your researching abilities !

I don't know if you'd call it a cleaning party,
But when called upon to help unpack Small Arms and equipment, My Father said they used Kerosene and or Diesel to remove packing oils and grease (Never heard him say Cosmo), which ever they could get while in the Philippines. Gas was his favorite but was hard to get a hold of. Cut down Oil or Fuel barrels set up for 1st clean, next barrels had cleaner fuel for 2nd clean off. All ended up being fire starter and used oils saved to skim the swamp water to kill mosquito larvae.
He only spoke about putting the bigger stuff like barreled receivers in the cleaning barrels, but also said Serial numbers were kept track of by 'Clip Boarders'. And hanging them to drip dry. Never heard any mention of the smaller parts. Other than there were plenty of guys set up in barracks tents to mess with the small detailed stuff. I do recall him saying they caught H3ll for using the used Diesel or kerosene to start fires to burn off the crates... because of the black smoke and smell.

He had bigger heavy equipment to tend to. So I doubt he spent much time doing the above.

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[lboos]

deleted

[Eaglelord17]

Another thing to consider, its actually a compliment that all these M1s are 'mixed up' as it meant the parts were made right. The whole reason for serializing equipment was to do with keeping the fitted parts together. By time we started making smokeless powder firearms many of the designs were more or less interchangeable on parts but the parts numbering was carried on from the earlier hand-fitted era. Quite a feat to make that many firearms which you can practically swap any part out to another gun and it will function fine. It is also part of what drives collectors insane as when they were updating or going through refit it was a matter of changing out worn or not updated parts, and replacing them with the new updated ones. Extremely practical, just not collector friendly as the earlier parts then become much rarer.

[lboos]

Getting back to the OP.
I kinda look at it this way, from what I have read and looked up on the internet on carbines over the years, put them in this order:
#1. This would be a WW-2 configured carbine that has never been touched or missed with since WW-2, which there are prob. about 10 total, and I doubt that.
#2. One that has been corrected, with org. WW-2 parts back to it's org. configuration. and that's about 99% of so-called org. WW-2 carbines out there.
#3. One that has all the post war mod's.
They are all still WW-2 carbines, and putting one back to it's org. WW-2 configuration is not faking one, it's just correcting it back to the way it was made for WW-2 .
And if you have family members or friends that used them in Korea or Vietnam, then the post war carbines with all there mod's are the way to go, I like all of them,.
But, for some one to say that if you change the configuration from the way the Military last used them, that it is now a fake carbine, is just BS...IMHO.
I really like all the comments, and I agree there are a lot of experts here, and I have learned a lot over the years, and all of the above is just one man's opinion, and I am still trying to learn.
It is the little gun that help win WW-2.

[Eaglelord17]

Getting back to the OP.
I kinda look at it this way, from what I have read and looked up on the internet on carbines over the years, put them in this order:
#1. This would be a WW-2 configured carbine that has never been touched or missed with since WW-2, which there are prob. about 10 total, and I doubt that.
#2. One that has been corrected, with org. WW-2 parts back to it's org. configuration. and that's about 99% of so-called org. WW-2 carbines out there.
#3. One that has all the post war mod's.
They are all still WW-2 carbines, and putting one back to it's org. WW-2 configuration is not faking one, it's just correcting it back to the way it was made for WW-2 .
And if you have family members or friends that used them in Korea or Vietnam, then the post war carbines with all there mod's are the way to go, I like all of them,.
But, for some one to say that if you change the configuration from the way the Military last used them, that it is now a fake carbine, is just BS...IMHO.
I really like all the comments, and I agree there are a lot of experts here, and I have learned a lot over the years, and all of the above is just one man's opinion, and I am still trying to learn.
It is the little gun that help win WW-2.

I think there were more left in original configuration than 1%, just your odds of seeing them in the USA are much lower. Most the ones left intact would likely have been given away as war surplus/aid to foreign countries and thereby not really allowed back into country for the most part. For example I have seen two so far in my life, which were not 'corrected' or faked. One I suspect was from the Philippines, it was in really rough shape, hard to fake that type of wear over everything. The other I strongly suspect wasn't faked because my buddy bought it for way less than market value off someone who just had a M1 Carbine, and he didn't know what he had bought until I took a quick look at it.

I get that you don't like the idea your faking it, a lot of Americans seem to think that way, but doesn't change what your doing. If you are a collector it is about preserving history not altering it. Changing it because it suits your idea of history is altering it, not preserving it. I can't just take a Isreali K98k and take the 7.62 markings off it, rebarrel it to 8mm Mauser and call it a WWII K98k, even though your just 'changing the configuration back to WWII standard' and that's how it originally would have been. Your not correcting something if it isn't broken.

[lboos]

I get that you don't like the idea your faking it, a lot of Americans seem to think that way, but doesn't change what your doing. If you are a collector it is about preserving history not altering it. Changing it because it suits your idea of history is altering it, not preserving it. I can't just take a Isreali K98k and take the 7.62 markings off it, rebarrel it to 8mm Mauser and call it a WWII K98k, even though your just 'changing the configuration back to WWII standard' and that's how it originally would have been. Your not correcting something if it isn't broken.

I don't think of my self as a serious carbine collector, I only own two, a m1 and an m1a1, I have been thinking about correcting one of them to it's org. WW-2 configuration using WW-2 parts, and I would never think about taking markings off. I hear a lot about if the govt. decides to add on some mod's that it would be "blasphemy" for anyone to dare change it, even though the govt. is the one who 1st altered the carbine, and we all understand why.
As far as your WW-2 K98K changes, that would not be a gun collector, that would be a real life bubba.
Anyway, thanks for your interesting thoughts, I always enjoy coming here, I learn something new every time.

[painter777]

Quick math...... say 6 million made, 99% upgraded ..... leaves what about 60,000 possible Originals.
All done without a calculator, I'm too tired to find one.

Funny though Louis, That 'Everyone' seems to have 1 or 2 Originals.

Me ? If I've got a bad sear in my Underwood, I'm looking for a Underwood sear to replace it.
Feel lucky we can still own them.

[lboos]

Painter,
You are right, I should have been more clear, I meant 99% of those "clamed" to be org. not of the 6 million carbine's made.

[USGI]

Painter,
You are correct, and I don't have a calculator ether, so Ill change my est. to "0" original's carbines.

I've seen several originals here on the Carbine Forum over the years. Spend some time searching and you should be able to find a few - complete with pictures and data sheets verifying the parts. I believe I have (2) originals, although one of them has two damaged parts on it. The other one I've had for 5 years and have never started a thread on - yet! - Bob

[Singer B]

Quick math...... say 6 million made, 99% upgraded ..... leaves what about 60,000 possible Originals.
All done without a calculator, I'm too tired to find one.

Funny though Louis, That 'Everyone' seems to have 1 or 2 Originals.

Me ? If I've got a bad sear in my Underwood, I'm looking for a Underwood sear to replace it.
Feel lucky we can still own them.

What's even more amazing is all of the people with "numbers matching" carbines.......