No 3 Mk 1 (T) (P14 with Warner-Swasey)

[Surpmil]

Checking with auction houses now for images.

Was there one auctioned that you know of?

Seeing as the P.14s were issued from British stocks and were never a general issue in Canada, I'd suspect the 80(?) were almost all turned in before Canadian troops returned from Europe. I say "almost" because like scoped Ross Mk.III rifles, a few were obviously kept back as souvenirs by individuals or certain battalions. If the rifles were turned in the scopes probably were as well, as being of no further use except as scrap, just as was ordained for the W&S scopes in Canada in 1944, according to the correspondence that Clive Law found.

In fact probably all the small arms issued from British stocks were turned in; simpler to equip the much smaller post-war Canadian regular army with new than transport, store and refurbish rifles that had had seen a year or two of war service. One of the questions that should have been asked when the people that knew were still alive!

Most of the Canadian issue W&S scopes that have turned up seem to have come out of Quebec; I found two there myself. That could be simply because that's where Longue Pointe and some other major ordnance depots are or were.

Clearly a scrap dealer decided some were worth more as scopes than as scrap and didn't send them all off for the melt. Despite having a couple of pounds of bronze in them, they would only be "irony" scrap due to all the steel parts and probably not worth disassembly to get a higher metal price.

[Riter]

Surpmil - I an unaware of any being auctioned off. Like contacting museums, it's a shot in the dark to locate images or a surviving rifle. I recently contacted Colin Stevens too and he's unaware off any surviving examples.

If you want to tease yourself look at the old 1938-9 American Rifleman Magazines. There were monthly ads featuring surplus W-S with case were being sold cheap (by our standards but a princely ransom by 1939 Great Depression standard). Hard times back then and most people spent their ducats on essentials.

BTW, best story I heard of the pre-WW II era was an American who bought every single new tire he could find. He filled his warehouse with them. He knew war was coming and that there would be a rubber shortage. When the war broke out and rubber was neeeded by the military, he made bank.

[Promo]

See .. the very interesting thing is the British DID do a drawing for the W&S scope to be used on the P.14 rifle. Attached is a cutout of this drawing. It dates 7-2-40, not knowing if the British prefer this weird way of putting the date or not, it may therefore had been either February or July 1940 when this drawing was made.


Note that this bracket puts the scope very high above the receiver. Additionally it sits on top of the receiver ring. And this is where it gets interesting - because the two pictures of the Canadian Sniper with the W&S on his Eddystone P.14 clearly DOESN'T have this bracket.


As a result to this .. there may actually have been two versions of the W&S scope on the P.14 rifle. Or - what may also well had been - they just used the rail from the Ross Rifle, milled the receiver (especially the ears of the rear sight protector) to clear the scope, and that was the only one actually ever making it to production.

[Riter]

Two mounting pads that are attached to the reciever via two screws each and then the mounting bracket attached to the pad also by two screws on each end.

Wouldn't the scope wound conceal the bracket?

[Promo]

The pictures clearly illustrate the rifle does not have something added to the receiver ring as well as that the scope isn't sitting as high as a scope would be with the bracket as shown in the drawing. To me therefore it is clear the rifle in the pictures has a rail added to the side of the receiver.

[Riter]

I see what you're talking about now. I bet the actual base was a simpler design that didn't have backets. It could have been one piece that milled and fitted to the receiver. That would be less labor intensive than the one in the drawing.

[Promo]

Someone on this forum once posted his build, it was a Remington made and he has had the Ross Rail fitted to the receiver, plus cutting the ears of the rear sight. For what I remember that was enough. Fail to find the pictures right now.

[Promo]

Someone on this forum once posted his build, it was a Remington made and he has had the Ross Rail fitted to the receiver, plus cutting the ears of the rear sight. For what I remember that was enough. Fail to find the pictures right now.

Finally found it. Back in 2023 I re-posted the pictures and noted that the original pictures were posted on Jouster forum. See this post here for pictures: https://www.milsurps.com/showthread....l=1#post526056

[Riter]

I would not butcher a Ross base to adapt it to the P-14. Oh the humanity! I'd rather pay a machinist to make a base to fit the P-14.

[Promo]

I would not butcher a Ross base to adapt it to the P-14. Oh the humanity! I'd rather pay a machinist to make a base to fit the P-14.

That base was a reproduction base that was altered. They are not complicated. Plus I yet have to see an original spare W&S rail for the Ross Rifle.