U.S. Model 1903, loaded question

[Chuckindenver]

the only military issue rifle that was made with a C stock was the 1903A4.
the C stocks on 1903A1,s was installed by the gov, after SA built the rifle, it was issued or sent to variuos places , then a C stock may have been added,
and then sold through the DCM.
Keystone, Milton Bradly, and American Billiard and Bowling made WW2 style C stocks, and will be cut for the A3 handguard ring,
no early thin wristed C stocks were ever made with a mill cut for the handguard ring for the A3s, as they wer made 1922 to 1939, the fat grip C stocks, were produced after March of 1943, well after the 1903A1 was issued, and sold.
the exeption to that rule is the first 1000 1903A4 snipers rifles had SA supplied hand cut thin wrist C stocks, as they had no Fat C stocks available yet. they hand cut the stock for the ring and turn down bolt, as well as opened up the front recoil lug for the A3 lug, and the stamped trigger guard.
and that held up production, of the A4 as well as the scope issues, until Feb of 43, when the first 2 were shipped for testing.
my March, April, C stocks were being delivered, and the A4 had its own stock, By Dec or 43 they started using Scant grip stocks on the A4.
and the A4 is also the only 1903 variant ever made new with a scant grip stock.
the first 1903A1 listed and sold as such is serial number 1200051, the last one listed as just a A1 is 1386743 all others after are listed as NMA1. until 1527003.
one could purchase a C stock at that time. but putting a rifle in the stock doesnt make it an A1, only a 1903 in a C stock.
i belive that only a documented 1903A1 is a true A1..no matter what stock it sits in.
example. if you had 1209181 as a bear receiver, it would still be a 1903A1. as its in the list of DCM rifle sales 1922 to 1942.
iv presented the challange many times to show a rifle below the serial number i listed , with DCM sales or despo, records saying its a 1903A1, and so far , no one has come up with such a rifle.
however, iv seen quite a few rifles at gunshows, on GB, ect, all being sold as a 1903A1 just cuz its stuffed in a C stock.
even seen the rare Remington 1903A1 being sold for 2 grand...{eyeroll} trying to get rich on the 1903A1 train.

[sdh1911]

In the book by Bill Bropry, He lays it out pretty clearly based on the production requests and serial numbers. You've done extremely well with your collection, It appears your in an area where they just happened to be at the time you were ready to buy, again since 1976, I've been collecting and have only seen two. Both I bought and did very well on-SDH

[sdh1911]

As far as the A1 stock go, I completely agree with you, entirely. There is only one example that I know of that slipped through the cracks as an issued rifle, all the others I've seen others the years have been either DCM or WW II, except the one I have in my basement, I'll be posting picks later, I have to get to work soon. The rifle came out of Ft. Benning in 1946 from the area where they were making prototype sniper rifles. The only reason I believe it wasn't used is because it was not a N.M.. Bbill B. said he would have used both the my rifles in his book, had he not already written it. Pics to come-SDH

[Chuckindenver]

thats an awesome book, but in the past 10 years, a few things have changed, and some of the info in that and many of the books on 03,s has been found to be in error.
heck i havnt even opened up a 1903 text book in a couple years.
as for the Remingtons, Dans wonderful collection, is a great example on what happen with most of them, they were sent to other countrys, and used here in non combat ops.
by the time the Reminton 03 was being made, the Garand was in full production,
most 03,s and A3,s made during that time, were never issued, sent to Allies, or issued in non combat ops,
but, youll find pics of the A3 being used in Korea, ect, once again, in support troops hands, or grenade use.
i talked to a Korea vet that drove a 6x6 supply truck, and he was issued a Remington A3, said he never fired it at a live target, and it made a great hat rack , and jacket rack, lol.
told me he would had rather had a M1 carbine, as it would had taken up less space in the cab.
but the color of his skin kept him from getting the Carbine, he did have some great pics, and nice bring backs, knives, tools, ect. had a real cool home made hunting knife, thats another story, for another forum.

[sdh1911]

I very much appreciate the input. I haven't collected them since 1993, I had to sell off most of my entire collection (163 rifles, mostly 03's). When I got past the crisis they were just too expensive to collect the way I like so I went Milsurp. It appears a lot has changed since that time, it used to be Bill B's book, Crossmans, Chambells and Hatchers books were Gospel. I liked Bills book the best and primarily studied it for years while collecting. Its quite obvious many things have surfaced since that time that have slipped me entirely, My Apologies-Steve D.H. PS I got two of the three remaining 03's in my collection going up on a new post, please check them out and let me know what you think.

[Dan M]

Steve... you should take a look at C.S. (Nick) Ferris' Rock Island Rifle Model 1903. It is a fantastic read, and a great reference work. The other tomes are sadly in need of updating.

[Chuckindenver]

Nick Ferris is a real nice guy, lives a few miles away from me, he also has a nice collection of Remington 03,s incuding a few unserialed proto types made by RIA and with Remington during the first stage of the production.
and a few neet RIA,s one thats a NM, and another WW1 sniper.
if you look at some of the picture in his RIA book, youll see some parts i loaned him through my father, one that stands out in my memory is a early stock i had, if you look close, you can see the sanding marks from my drill sander,,yep, i know, i was ruining a nice stock, but i was young, and they were all over back then, and that didnt matter too me at the time.
a few bolts, trigger guards, ect, that i loaned my father to give nice for pictures.
sadly, any new 03 books that have come out in the last few years , have been disapointing to say the least, Poyers is laid out well, but lots of wrong info. from dates, to scope info..one thing that stands out is a picture of a 1903A1 USMC sniper rifle, then i look real close,,its a Remington 03!!, i asked him about it, and his responce? it was just for the picture of the USMC scope. and not the rifle..

[sdh1911]

I haven't read that one yet, time to hunker down and get back into the program, when I had to sell off, Although it was better than a stock market investment it was a heart breaker. So I got into Milsurps, I am however starting to look again and even picked up a minty A3 rebuild by Elmer Keith, hmm, starting to itch again-Steve