Do I have a Savage sniper?

[jmoore]

MJ1, is your No4 Mk1* also S51 marked? It also seems to have been never scoped whilst in service. You and Mudhut ought to compare inspector's marks and such! Most "real" Savage Mk1 (no *, but both "T" and "not-T") conversions I've seen did not carry the Hollands' mark (presumably as they done at Enfield). Quite educational this thread!

[MJ1]

I will have to dig them out and look but one had been restocked for some reason eventhough it looked unfired or close to it. I have never had the darker one out of it's wood. I just wiped the cosmoline off shot 10 rounds and put it back in storage. The lighter one became my shooter and has over 200 rounds through it now in seven years. A good project for later today maybe.

...MJ...

[jmoore]

Thanks for the pics and info! Too little info on these rifles really, The restocked one is still valuable for the marks on the metal. I've always been suspisious of this variant, esp. w/ an S51 stamp on the buttstock.
If enough hard info surfaces concerning the original build of these non-scoped No4 Mk1* rifles it'll probably make it where I can't afford one, but it would sure fill a knowledge gap.

I think they're the production test run for the accuracy selected snipers soon to be built up by Holland and Holland.

(None of your scope pads have the Enfield mark on them do they? As per the Trials Rifle conversions, that is.)

[MJ1]

I don't know what marks your asking about. None of my rifles has any marks on the pads. So I must have ten faked up rifle then. But then we do have the S51.

Cheers
...MJ...

[jmoore]

What's intriguing about both of your rifles is that they appear to retain the original Savage "Parkerizing" finish whilst the pads are "blued". There's really no discrepancies between them, unless the inspecter's marks vary.

The Savage No4 Mk1 (no *)(no "T") conversions I've seen were of uniform finish, but I did not know to look for particular inspector marks at the time, as this was before I got my Trials "T". Seen 'em both w/ S51 and w/o and were in "like new" condition.

It seems that the previously published information on the Savages may not be altogether accurate! I'm going to guess that these rifles fell through the cracks as they weren't actual sniper rifles (i.e. no "T") but rather production proving units. It DOES appear that some went through Hollands' shop, though!

Now to find some Savages (w/ "T" or not) that have ENFIELD pads on them.

Anybody?

[Roger Payne]

Good Luck! I've yet to see one...........it would be quite impressive.

ATB

[Peter Laidler]

I spoke to the last wartime fitter at the H&H works (they have never called it a factory.....) and as I remember it, he told me that those rifles without telescopes were rifles that had been left there, in store, after the decision was made to concentrate SOLELY on converting rifles from BSA. There's no reason to tell you why they did this but in short, standardisation, simplicity and known quantity.

At the end of production, those that were left behind were completed where they could be but the rest were returned as is. They didn't go back in chests either. Just the rifles, brackets and telescopes. They were delivered and collected by British Railways lorries, in low, wheeled racks.

The reason why the Savage rifles retained their matt phosphate finish was because H&H only had what they told me was 'spot blacking' or brunofix or they're usual pre-war blueing. They weren't paid to do anything else

[jmoore]

Do you suppose the Savage rifles were left there the whole time, or that they had been shuffled off back in '42 and put in stores somewhere? They are often seen in like new condition. Mk1*'s aren't often seen at all, though!

[Peter Laidler]

I don't know why S Mk1*'s aren't that common but I just assume that at about the time the S Mk1*'s started coming on stream, so was the decision to concentrate on just BSA rifles. So while a few S Mk1*'s slowly went through, the concentration was on BSA. Concentrating on just BSA made the logistics simpler too. These are just my thoughts I must add.

This is the reason why there are so few Maltby No4T's. While a few M's started to come through, BSA was up and running so Maltby and Savage were kicked into touch

[jmoore]

I'm feeling kinda stupid for passing up several over the years because the S51 marks kept me suspisious of 'em. Weren't all that expensive either, which should have been a subtle hint that they weren't "cobbled up". Will need to eyeball a few and get a load of detail pictures at some point.