Khyber Pass build?

[John Sukey (Deceased)]

Funny thing, If some of those rifles had not had the original Kabul arsenal markings scrubbed, they would be a collectable in their own right

Just a question here, if the copies were made from old railroad iron, just how would the metallurgy differ all that much from a 19th century British Martini?

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[c12dat]

Funny thing, If some of those rifles had not had the original Kabul arsenal markings scrubbed, they would be a collectable in their own right

Just a question here, if the copies were made from old railroad iron, just how would the metallurgy differ all that much from a 19th century British Martini?

Hello to All,

It is getting to painful to send back any sort of antique rifles back to the US from Afghanistan. About a year ago, a new LTC took command of the Custom that is in charge of this area of operation. Military Custom nows require an ATF Form 6B to send back any antique rifle; muzzle loaders are exempt. This procedure of getting approval from the ATF can take up to 90 days.

Because of the new restrictions, the local vendors were told that they can't sell the Martini-Henry anymore. So they stopped bringing them to the local bazaar. The vendors also have told me that there are too many police checkpoints and they don't want to be caught with a 'weapon'. Additionally, the bazaar at where I am posted has been closed for the last 6 months. I do not know when they will open up again.

I have told the gun vendors not to mess with the Afghan Martini-Henry. They just want to make a buck so they will sell them with fake Enfield markings and/or swap parts between rifles to sell them. Most GI's wants an "Enfield" rifle as a souvenir so that is what the vendors will sell to make a living. Oh, it is also funny to see how many "new" antique muzzle loaders rifles are for sale now.

DoubleD ... The rifle #2 in your photos. Is there a way that you can check the metalurgy in that rifle? I don't think that it was made with steel from rail road tracks. My area of interest is actually bayonets and I have several Afghan P88 bayonets and the steel of those bayonets are pretty good. Lastly, what do you mean by the under cut of the knuckle seat? Thank you in advance for your reply.

I am about to depart Afghanistan. When I get home, I'll dig for more Afghan Martini Henry photo to post.

v/r
c12dat

[TheDoubleD]

Hello to All,...

DoubleD ... The rifle #2 in your photos. Is there a way that you can check the metalurgy in that rifle? I don't think that it was made with steel from rail road tracks. My area of interest is actually bayonets and I have several Afghan P88 bayonets and the steel of those bayonets are pretty good. Lastly, what do you mean by the under cut of the knuckle seat? Thank you in advance for your reply.

v/r
c12dat

If I had the money the metallurgy any of the rifles could checked.

I did an acid etch trying see if I could raise the markings with out much luck. There were shadows and the impression I got was the shape and location of the marking of the the Kabul Arsenal marking. But that is purely speculative on my part, it could be something else altogether.

Undercut.

Here is bearhunters rifle.




Here is the same area on the number 2 rifle.



Notice how much of the rounded knuckle of the back of the breech block is exposed in Bear hunters rifle vs rifle #2. The back of the action

I went through all my martini pictures, and every martini I have here-22, and none of them expose the knuckle like bearhunters.

MHCC



Bonehill converted MH



Westley Richard Commercial action



Arab made Martini



A MH MKVI and a ME



MH



Turkish Peabody Martini with damage seat.



Well you get the idea

[TheDoubleD]

John that's the problem.

We know that the metal of the Martini is a specific formulation of a mild steel.

We don't know what the metallurgy of the rail road iron or whatever steels that may have been used with it to make the KP rifle-that is the concern.

Rail road steel is hard, MH steel is not.

[topaz]

You're a very smart man and your knowledge is vast,(DoubleD) and you give a lot to the forum . (Thank You) But I see that you have to have the last word all of the time. You think no one has the right to question your wisdom(?). I mean after all, this is a discussion (forum) and we are here to learn (knowledge) and each of us have opinions. But to call someone's rifle a kp and insist before you really know, (Quote ITs made from old railroad iron/obvious counterfiet)is not right. We just learned that the rifle in question could very well be from Kabul Arsenal. But a lot of people read this forum and you gave bearhunter's rifle a death sentence. That's what I mean about an apology. If you feel it's not warranted ..ok This message is not meant to be offensive, but to give credit where credit is do. Good one , The Emperor`s new cloths meaning one should not believe everything they are told,especially if the evidence does not support the claims.. Sin of omission. Case closed: quote by dat:

The rifle that started this thread is a Kabul Arsenal Martini-Henry .303 with its markings buffed off. There is an Afghan bayonet specially made to fit this rifle. The bayonet is similar to the Pattern 1888 bayonet, but with a 16 inch blade. A British Pattern 1888 will mount on this rifle but the muzzle ring will extend past the end of the barrel. v/r c12dat

[topaz]

Welcome home dat

[topaz]

Thanks for the treat, Do you own these rifles? Bill

[c12dat]

Thanks for the treat, Do you own these rifles? Bill

I sent back one of each type: the long rifle, 3/4 length rifle .303, carbine .450 and carbine .303

My favorite is the .303 with the Afghan P88 bayonet.

Hopefully our command will allow the vendors to start selling these nice rifles again. I would not mind getting a few more.

v/r
c12dat

[topaz]

Thats great,The rifles are real nice.Was it a problem getting them back home. How hard was it to find the bayonets. Bill

[c12dat]

[QUOTE=topaz;126123]Thats great,The rifles are real nice.Was it a problem getting them back home. How hard was it to find the bayonets. Bill

Yeah, it has gotten quite painful to get any sort of antique rifles home. Our Military Custom office requires a ATF Form 6 approval to send these MH home. The local vendors are also having problems bringing the rifles to their shop to sell. Most GI's don't want the hassle with the paper work.

There used to be plenty of bayonets for sale at the bazaar here of all types. I think that there aren't much around anymore. I have a couple of the Afghan bayonets, but most of the one I saw for sale here over the years are in poor conditions. There weren't that many for sale at all.

v/r
c12dat