Winchester Model 12 navy, need help with ID, value.

[Viper225]

I have been doing more research down a different trail. It looks like we started getting prepaired for WWII as early as 1939. We had 30 new Training Bases under CRASH construction in 1940 - 1941. (Pre Pearl Harbor) Most of these bases were considered Semi-Permanent (Life of buildings 5 thru 20 years) WWII Semi-Permanent bases has Special Services facilities, Churches, etc in the original base design plans. Not added at some later date as an after thought. Barracks buildings had latrines incorporated into the original designs for the first time. Troop Strength in 1939 was listed as 210,000 by the summer of 1941 we were ahead of projected numbers at 1.5 Million troops. (Again pre Pearl Harbor) I was reading about Fort Leonard Wood. It stated that a building was being completed every 45 minutes in 1941.
After Pearl Harbor we started construction on another 35 Training Bases in 1942.
The 30 Training Bases under construction in 1940 - 1941 would have had a requirement for Riot Guns for Guards and MP's. Special Services would have had a requirement for recreational shotguns for trap and skeet as well as hunting. Training Bases that did MP training would have had a requirement for Riot Guns for that school. The bases doing training for POW Camp Duty would have had a requirement for Riot Guns.
Their would have been a contract to purchase these shotguns with a delivery date in advance of the guns being needed. Troop Training was being done at some of the first bases under construction in 1941. So we had to have had delivery of shotguns during 1941 to arm the new bases.
The 3 EARLY WWII Model 12's we have located so far have a serial number spread of 520. Two are Full Choke 28" barrel guns and one 20" Riot gun. My gun has the lowest serial number of the 3 and has a 1940 barrel stamp, the other 2 have 1941 date stamps on the barrels. I believe all 3 have a 1941 Serial Number range.
With 3 Model 12's all marked with the same Military Stamps, and Inspector Markings, with a Serial Number Spread of 520, we have a contract purchase. With the serial numbers of all 3 being Pre Pearl Harbor it would likewise be reasonable to believe these guns were purchased to arm the new bases under construction in 1940 - 1941.
As far as I can find out 20,000 Model 12's were purchased in WWI and another 80,000 in WWII. My guess would be only a fraction of the 100,000 Model 12's are in civilian hands today. With an early contract for probably 1,000 guns or less. Finding 3 from the early contract so far is probably not bad. I am sure more exist.
A friend of mine went to work for Special Services in the 1970's. He told me that they sold off used shotguns from inventory in the mid 1970's just after he went to work. This could explain how the Full Choke ones came into civilian hands. After WWII ended, Aerial Gunnery Training would have been phased out. With no need for Full Choke Model 12's they very likely could have been transfered to Special Services. This could explain why Texwings has the bracket on the barrel for what was probably an aerial gunnery sight, along with Special Services Property stickers.
I have no doubt that we have located the 3 earliest WWII Model 12's known to exist at this time. Without the internet we would have never connected the dots on these 3. I believe more will surface as time passes.

[jackmorse]

have enjoyed reading about these mod 12s
have one identical with large u.s. left side old bomb on brl
full choke long brl dated 41 brl and receiver match sn 92715x

respectfully

jackmorse

[/Longcolt44]

I have just discovered after having my Model 12 for over 30 years that it has the stamp WB in a box and the crossed cannons under it. This gun was handed down to me by an uncle that was in the Seabees during WWII. Serial number on this gun is 9291XX which dates to 1942. I am a collector of WWI and WWII firearms but never thought to look at my own guns. The only other USGI guns I have are 2 1898 Krags. I have emailed Bruce Canfield to see if he can shed some light on these shotguns. I have heard from a friend that the Army trained machinegunners to shoot clays out of a moving Jeep during WWII with shotguns.
LC44

[Tom Doniphon]

Jack Morse, is there anything you can add about these Model 12s?

It's interesting that a number of them have surfaced all at once here.

[/Longcolt44]

Correction. Blue Book of Gun Values puts my Model 12 a military issue long gun shotgun as made in 1941.
LC44

[DrMark]

Great thread, all.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed!

[Texwing]

Calling all long barrelled Model 12's with U.S. marking on left side. This is Texwing and i started this thread, but have not looked at it in a while. If I am reading correctly, perhaps two more of these guns may have shown up. jackMorse and Longcolt44, please post pics so we can have all four of five guns in one location, perhaps the experts may then take notice!

[Viper225]

Tom The reason they have all surfaced at once is the internet. A very few years ago a handfull of collectors were the only ones with contact with each other. Like most of us owners of these guns, who are not collectors, I had no idea mine was marked any different than all the rest till I started checking on what it might be worth. I figured it being Full Choke was different, but that was about it. I have seen a couple US marked shotguns over the years, I think all were 97's. I had no idea how a WWII Military Model 12 was normally marked before I started my search. I still have no idea how a WWI Model 12 was marked.
If both of the last 2 guns listed are marked the same as the first 3 we now have 5 early M12's found with around a 2800 spread in the serial numbers 92635X to 9291XX.
And the search continues for more.

[NavyEngineer]

Texwing,

I just saw your old thread. The stickers look like they state N.W.S. Yorktown, which would mean your shotgun served at the Naval Weapons Station at Yorktown, Virginia. I've included a link that describes some of the history of the base below. Hope this helps.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...y/yorktown.htm

Hello, I recently got a few guns out of an old collection and could not resist picking up this Model 12, it was in great shape and had all kinds of military markings as the pics show in part, including cartouches. Serial number makes for a production date of 1942, althought the 1942 Carrier Yorktown was sunk at Midway, so the Yorktown property stickers must have been a later boat...
Anyway, this Model 12 has been rebarrelled at some point (much less wear on the finish) to a 28 inch full choke barrel.

So, I am wondering if this gun might have started life as a trench gun of some sort, and if so it might be possible to get it back (correctly) to its earlier state..I have not had a military shotgun before so I will appreciate any help, including value and whether to leave it as is or try to track down a correct barrel assembly. I am assuming it was rebarreled for skeet shooting off the fantail, but I dont know. Thanks in advance for any help.

[remroc]

Your model 12 is marked "special services". That is a recreation orginization at a Navy base. It is like a skeet or trap club where you can borrow a gun and shoot for a fee. Where they got their guns is anyones guess. I have shot model 12's at some bases.