Highest known Sterling L34A1 - Mk5 ?

[Lee Enfield]

From photographic evidence it appears that there were approx. 5200 (1000 with no serial prefix and 4200 with the S prefix)commercial Sterling Mk5's produced in addition to the UK MOD order(s).


An observation based on the serial numbers posted on the internet (mostly of new condition guns which were deactivated) is that when Sterling folded, they had guns from approx. serial number S 3200 to S 4200 in stock.

The next observation is that the commercial mag housings were (probably) all roll marked as Mk4 (L2A3) guns, had the " 4 (L2A3) "welded over and then re marked "5 L34A1".

Notice also the lack of brackets surrounding the UK MoD designation on the L34A1.





Notice the smaller font used for " L34A1 " and if you find enough photos (not many exist by the way), sometimes the L34A1 disappears into the mag housing brazing.

These pics just show the spacing between the "5" and the "L34A1" being different from above. And the L34A1 is on a different vertical Plain from the "5".




All of the pictures are stolen from the internet and random websites...

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Lee Enfield]

I went trolling through the Royal Armouries on-line collection and found the following serial numbers. These guns are all catalogued as "Silenced", or "Suppressed" , unfortunately, none of them have available photos - several of them however were used to illustrate the GoD book:

06 Patchett MkII Experimental w/ suppressor PR.7329

SV1 (In an incomplete condition) Centrefire automatic silenced submachine gun - Sterling L2A3 Experimental (about 1958) -Silenced PR.1434 Centrefire automatic suppressed submachine gun - Sterling L2A3 Experimental (about 1958) - Royal Armouries collections
SV2 Trials model Centrefire automatic submachine gun - Sterling L2A3, Experimental PR.7607 3.6.18Sterling Patchett (L2A3) Experimental SV (Silent version) Centrefire automatic submachine gun - Sterling Patchett (L2A3) Experimental SV (Silent version) (about 1965) - Royal Armouries collections
SV3 Centrefire automatic silenced submachine gun - Sterling L2A3 Experimental - about 1958 - Silenced PR.1431 built on a rejecyed Fazakerley made casing,The Patchett push rod-activated silencer
SV4 " Silenced" Centrefire automatic silenced submachine gun - Sterling L2A3 Experimental - about 1958 PR.1432 built on a rejecyed Fazakerley made casing The push rod has been eliminated
SV6 (In an incomplete condition) Centrefire automatic suppressed submachine gun - Experimental Sterling L2A3 - about 1958 PR.1429 The push rod has been eliminated, incomplete
SV8 "Silenced" about 1958 - Centrefire automatic silenced submachine gun - Sterling L2A3 Experimental PR.1433 Sterling Patchett (L2A3) Experimental SV (Silent version),The push rod has been eliminated

- this serial number looks really interesting - was Faz going to spool up, or was it just one of the re-used receiver casings? No date in the production code is shown -

UFSV01 "Integrally silenced" "A prototype L34A1" Centrefire automatic silenced submachine gun - Sterling-Patchett L2A3 Experimental -about 1956-1967 PR.7335

[I] "NVN" means "No Visible Number" - Warren suggests which seems to make the most sense.

NVN (A Saben & Hart design) Centrefire automatic silenced submachine gun - Sterling L2A3 Experimental (examined & listed in tGoD) PR.7606
NVN (Conversion to silenced) Centrefire automatic silenced submachine gun - Sterling L2A3 Experimental (about 1956-1993) - NOTTINGHAM; RO PR.9159

DD1 This gun was used by the RSAF Enfield Design & Development Department (D&DD) for sub-sonic ammunition and silencer experiments. They utilised ex-Fazakerley L2A3 casings. PR.1423
DD3 "With Enfield detachable silencer" Centrefire automatic silenced submachine gun RSAF Enfield experimental gun PR.7605 [One of these 2 could actually be DD2]
DD3 This gun was used by the RSAF Enfield Design & Development Department (D&DD) for sub-sonic ammunition and silencer experiments. They utilised ex-Fazakerley L2A3 casings. (examined & listed in tGoD) PR.1418 [One of these 2 could actually be DD2]
DD4 This gun was used by the RSAF Enfield Design & Development Department (D&DD) for sub-sonic ammunition and silencer experiments. They utilised ex-Fazakerley L2A3 casings. PR.1421
DD5 This gun was used by the RSAF Enfield Design & Development Department (D&DD) for sub-sonic ammunition and silencer experiments. They utilised ex-Fazakerley L2A3 casings. PR.1422

- We know from the photo in GoD that these guns are US66A002 & US66A003 apparently the 2nd & 3rd UK MOD production L34A1's -

US66A002 (Integrally silenced) Centrefire automatic silenced submachine gun - Sterling L34A1 PR.1436 (updated 8.4.17)
US66A003 Integrally silenced "about 1966" Centrefire automatic silenced submachine gun - Sterling L34A1 (examined & listed in tGoD) PR.1437
US67A205 Centrefire automatic silenced submachine gun - Sterling L34A1 - Presented by the Ministry of Defence PR.8405
US67A423 (Integrally silenced) Gifted with the Pattern Room from the Ministry of Defence, 2005 - Centrefire automatic silenced submachine gun - Sterling-Patchett L34A1 PR.7336

- Photographic evidence indicates that approx. 1600+ commercial Mk5's were built before the "S" serial prefix was added in 1972 - tGoD seems to suggest 50 unit commercial batches starting #(S)001 on 20 June 1966 and reaching serial #(S)1150 in Feb 1972, (this batch presumably reaching #(S)1200). While the serial # list in tGoD suggests that all of the Mk5's had an "S" prefix I believe the evidence shows that we can discount a prefix on the Mk5 until James Edmiston changed the prefix on the Mk4 when he took over in 1972.

152 "Law Enforcement Athens Georgia" ARS gun in US c.2009 (photos) https://www.milsurps.com/showthread....l=1#post470900
278 (Commercial gun in New Zealand in link posted above) (Arms Register)
293 Integrally silenced Centrefire automatic silenced submachine gun -Presented by the Ministry of Defence PR.7337 updated description 3.6.18 Sterling Patchett Mk.5 (L34A1) commercial model (made 1968)Integrally silenced with crackle finish
297 Mk5 live and for sale in UK CG firearms Sterling SMG 9mm Supressed (L34A1/Mk.5) | cgfirearms
867 Maschinenpistole, GB-Ord. Sterling MK5 L 38 A1, lot 16431, http://www.kesslerauktionen.ch/Katal.../Katalog16.pdf
887Maschinenpistole, Sterling SMG MK 5, Kal. 9 mmP. , no handguard, Kessler Auktionen AG auction 43 lot # 43841 sold for 1100chf Nov 10-11, 2017 http://www.kesslerauktionen.ch/Katal.../katalog43.pdf
953 (see photo posted above) (Chicago Regimentals)
980 (Chicago Regimentals)
1062 Single shot issued to Sussex Police (Presented by Sussex Police 2003. Police no. S/2/01B. Previously on issue to Sussex Police, Single Shot, Mk5) Centrefire automatic submachine gun - Sterling Mk.V date 1970 XII.11669
1283 demilled in USA on Gunbroker 10.4.23 https://www.milsurps.com/showthread....l=1#post532818 https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1011695123
1430 wood handguard, straight cocking handle and no studs -dealer sample Ohio Ordnance USA
1493 US "pre-86" Dealer Sample Armalite - Costa Mesa CA marked as importer bolt date S72 Lot Detail - (N) FANTASTIC STERLING ARMAMENT MODEL MK V INTEGRALLY SUPPRESSED MACHINE GUN (PRE-86 DEALER SAMPLE).
1528 US "pre-86" Dealer Sample, bolt dated "S72" missing outer tube and baffles "Law Enforcement Ordinance, Athens Georgia" https://www.rockislandauction.com/de...submachine-gun
1532 US "pre-86" Dealer Sample, bolt dated "S72" "Law Enforcement Ordinance, Athens Georgia" Lot Detail - (N) STERLING ARMAMENT CO. L34A1 MACHINE GUN WITH STERLING ARMAMENT CO. SUPPRESSOR (PRE-86 DEALER SAMPLE).
1597 US "pre-86" Dealer Sample, ARS https://dealernfa.com/shop/mkv-sterl...r-xs1597-1597/


- while we don't know (photographically) where the numbers were restarted when the serial prefix was added in 1972, although GoD states that production resumed in April 1973 at serial # S1200, and PL above suggests that they may have started at S1001 -

I wonder if the COD (Central Ord. Depot) Donnington sourced guns below weren't the ones which ruined James Edmiston and led to the witch hunt... and which PL above says were later "bought in by MOD"

S1115, read as "57775" (see NOTE at bottom)
S1185 (bolt dated S71, PG dated S73) Deac at Citadel.ru ММГ Бесшумный пистолет-пулемет Sterling L34A1 / Mk.5
S1634 A R S crinkle paint https://www.milsurps.com/showthread....l=1#post534344
S1650 (listed in tGoD as first of a batch in October 1976)
S1678 Sterling-Patchett Sub-machine Gun 9mm Mk5, "crinkle" finish w/ wooden foregrip. SMG 9m/m MK5 L34A1 Sterling-Patchett Sub-machine Gun 9mm Mk5 bolt date coded 1978 (this one is in the Imperial War Museum - Argentinian Falklands capture)
S1686 (highest serial number listed in tGoD with notation "following records incomplete")
S1929 (examined for magwell markings & listed in tGoD)
S2206 "Integrally silenced" Centrefire automatic silenced submachine gun - Sterling Mk.5 PR.1435
S2238 Mk5, Pistol Grip dated 1972, Singapore Police rack Number SPF 33 (bolt date hidden) US Dealer Sample 4.25.23 https://www.gunbroker.com/item/983263982
S2248 DEAC dwsuk
S3073 Maschinenpistole, Sterling SD, Kal. 9mm Para. http://www.kesslerauktionen.ch/Katal...KatalogSIG.pdf lot # SIG399
S3220 Excellent Condition British Mk.5 Silent Sterling – SN 220 MJL Militaria[product-gallery]/8
S3268 (see photo posted above)
S3301 (see photo posted above)forend, grip, no mount buttons,
S3304 Mk5, marked "34" "1" "SAFE", no studs, wood forend S81 bolt, S86 PG - CMS
S3305 Mk5 Collectorssource
S3315 Helston Gunsmiths, fixed plastic stock, no studs Untitled 1
S3320 Iraq capture 10.10.09 Green0 ar15.Look What FEDEX brought Sat STERLING MK5!!!! - AR15.COM
S3510 Mk5, marked "34" "1" "SAFE", no studs, wood forend S87 bolt, - Pre-May '86 US Dealer sample https://dealernfa.com/shop/mkv-sterl...it-s3510-3510/
S3530 "Short model" Centrefire automatic silenced submachine gun - Sterling MK.VS - NOTTINGHAM; RO PR.9165
S3554 Mk5, marked "34" "1" "SAFE", no studs, wood forend S79 bolt, S75 PG "Sterling Dagenham/Lanchester USA Dallas Texas" US Pre-86 Dealer Sample https://www.gunbroker.com/item/957491740 11.18.22
S3570 Centrefire automatic silenced submachine gun - Sterling L34A1 (about 1967-1993) -COD DONNINGTON PR.9385
S3606 Mk5 Mk5, marked "34" "1" "SAFE", no studs, wood forend S81 bolt, S86 PG dealer sample STERLING MKV - NEW, UNFIRED WITH 2 MAGS AND SLING - Machine Guns at GunBroker.com : 793648389
S3666 wood handguard, no studs, high night vision mount, no scope Lot 42895: Maschinenpistole, Sterling SMG MK 5, Kal. 9mmP Kessler Auktionen AG April 22, 2017 http://www.kesslerauktionen.ch/Katal.../katalog42.pdf
S3693 "Integrally Silenced" Sterling Patchett Mk.5 (L34A1) commercial model PR.1438(made 1982) Gifted to the Ministry of Defence Pattern Room by H.M. Customs & Excise, Lower Thames Street, London, June 1986
S3705 (With wooden grip) Centrefire automatic silenced submachine gun - Sterling Patchett Mk.5 (L34A1) - Integrally silenced PR.7338 -Gifted to the Ministry of Defence Pattern Room by H.M. Customs & Excise, Lower Thames Street, London, June 1986
S3710 Mk5, marked "34" "1" "SAFE", Black wood grip, scope studs, bolt dated s83 (G&A video) Class III: Sterling L34A1 - Guns Ammo
S3747 Centrefire automatic silenced submachine gun - Sterling L34A1 - COD DONNINGTON PR.9384
S3748 Single shot model - Centrefire self-loading silenced submachine gun - Sterling Patchett Mk.V (L34A1) - NOTTINGHAM; RO PR.9162 updated description 3.6.18 Transferred to the Pattern Room from Royal Ordnance PLC, Nottingham, March 1993
S3789 Mk5, marked "34" "1" "SAFE", no studs, for sale on Gunbroker 9.8.17 url="http://www.gunbroker.com/item/692755798"]http://www.gunbroker.com/item/692755798This Pre May ('86) Dealer Sample is the suppressed version of the..Sterling...original Factory gun with perfect finish. Considered..most quiet 9mm suppressed SMG.
S3799 [SIZE="1"]"with sight mount" Sterling Patchett Mk.5PC (L34A1) commercial model - NOTTINGHAM; RO PR.9161 Centrefire self-loading silenced submachine gun - Sterling Patchett Mk.5PC (L34A1) commercial model (made 1985)
S3800 reported in NZ https://www.milsurps.com/showthread....l=1#post530411
S3818 "Short Single Shot" Sterling MkVS PR.9164
S3875 Mk5, studs, black foregrip - GSL GSL Technology - The Company That Built Gemtech - The Firearm BlogThe Firearm Blog
S3889 Mk5, 34, 1, Safe, Studs ??????????-??????Mk5???????? ?????????????????????_???????
S3893 mk5, 34, 1, safe studs, bent cocking handle, wood forend 11.21.23 MINT Condition Original Silenced Sterling Mk5 - MJL Militaria
S3898 Maschinenpistole, Sterling SMG MK 5, Kal. 9mmP , lot #40175 http://www.kesslerauktionen.ch/Katal.../katalog40.pdf , has scope studs
S3906 "Skeleton" Centrefire automatic silenced submachine gun - Sterling Patchett Mk.V (L34A1) - NOTTINGHAM; RO PR.9163 Centrefire automatic silenced submachine gun - Sterling Patchett Mk.5 (L34A1), skeleton (about 1967-1993) - Royal Armouries collections
S3918 "Single shot model" Centrefire self-loading silenced submachine gun - Sterling Patchett Mk.V (L34A1) - NOTTINGHAM; RO (examined & listed in tGoD) PR.9160 Transferred to the Pattern Room from Royal Ordnance PLC, Nottingham, March 1993
S3927 (see photo posted above) (Chicago Regimentals)
S3951 (see photo posted above) (Chicago Regimentals)
S3957, a standard commercial gun with the Stanag mounting studs on the top of the body - woodsy
S3988 mk5, 34, 1, safe studs, bent cocking handle, wood forend, chicago regimentals http://www.regimentals.jp/detail_gun.php?id=5964
S3995 Mk5, 34, 1, SAFE, studs, bent cocking handle, wood forend, bolt dated S83, collectorssource
S4003 Mk5, marked "34" "1" "SAFE", studs, wood forend CS
S4058 (PS Arms dealer sample demilled May 2001 in USA for parts kit)
S4064 (Commercial gun in New Zealand in link posted above) (Arms Register)
S4106 Mk5, marked "34" "1" "SAFE", Range gun in vegas - wood handguard, bent cocking handle and mounting studs (Battle Field Vegas 2017)
S4141 mk5 in NZ 9mm British Mark 5 L34A1 Sterling Machine Gun Suppressed. - Collector Weapons
S4144 (With crinkle finish and a wooden forend) Purchased from Helston Gunsmiths, June 1999 Centrefire automatic silenced submachine gun - Sterling Patchett Mk.5 (L34A1) commercial model Sterling Patchett Mk.5 (L34A1) commercial model (made 1987)
S4154 mk5, 34, 1, safe studs, bent cocking handle, wood forend 11.21.23 MINT Condition Original Silenced Sterling Mk5 - MJL Militaria
S4156 https://www.milsurps.com/showthread....l=1#post534157
S4157 mk5, 34, 1, safe studs, bent cocking handle, wood forend
S4167 (see photo posted above)
S4173 mk5, 34, 1, safe studs, bent cocking handle, wood forend "American Liberator" on youtube and https://www.instagram.com/jumboshrim...l/C4BmMc9rA2N/ 4.27.24
S4212 Single shot model PROMO UK dealer pic. 11.15.23 https://www.milsurps.com/showthread....l=1#post533878 Untitled 1


LA2 Semiautomatic 9mm Carbine Mk6, long front tube like OGT Peter Wilke Mk9 Untitled 1
LA3 Semiautomatic 9mm Carbine Mk6, long front tube like OGT Peter Wilke Mk9 (Helston Gunsmiths 4.2.25)

Note: where "PR.1234" is listed it is the Royal Armouries at Leeds inventory number
and a weird outlier:

probably handwritten S1115, read as "57775":
S 1115:
57775 Maschinenpistole, Sterling SMG MK 5, Kal. 9mmP, lot 42921 Kessler Auktionen AG April 22, 2017 [url="http://www.kesslerauktionen.ch/Kataloge/Katalog/katalog42.pdf"]
I theorize that the "5" is a mis-read "S", but 7775 is far too high...unless this is a 1957 dated receiver?? one of the test guns? a homebuilt? re-serialized?
-misread or mistyped in the catalogue description? S 1115 is tempting, but S 1185 doesn't show serifs on the "1"s.

[Vincent]

S3530 "Short model" Centrefire automatic silenced submachine gun - Sterling MK.VS - NOTTINGHAM; RO

Would this “Short model” be like S3818 (deleted forward expansion chamber), only open-bolt and capable of automatic fire?

Some of the more modern Mk5 suppressors have baffles in the forward chamber.



The area around the barrel has a thin sleeve inside the tube. It keeps the carbon buildup inside and makes getting the outer tube off easy. You can still see the larger hole where the bayonet lug was and the flat area for the bayonet handle. There’s a barrel busing and the rear inner suppressor rear cap is also the barrel nut. The blast baffle chamber is vented into the outer chamber and expansion chamber below the front sight. There’s another small expansion chamber between the front cap and the forward inner suppressor.

[Lee Enfield]

Would this “Short model” be like S3818 (deleted forward expansion chamber), only open-bolt and capable of automatic fire?

Some of the more modern Mk5 suppressors have baffles in the forward chamber.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...aft20can-1.jpg


The area around the barrel has a thin sleeve inside the tube. It keeps the carbon buildup inside and makes getting the outer tube off easy. You can still see the larger hole where the bayonet lug was and the flat area for the bayonet handle. There’s a barrel bushing and the rear inner suppressor rear cap is also the barrel nut. The blast baffle chamber is vented into the outer chamber and expansion chamber below the front sight. There’s another small expansion chamber between the front cap and the forward inner suppressor.

does that mean you don't have the diffuser tube inside the rolled screen?

[Woodsy]

Just to add to the list, I have #S3957, a standard commercial gun with the Stanag mounting studs on the top of the body.

[Vincent]

Just to add to the list, I have #S3957, a standard commercial gun with the Stanag mounting studs on the top of the body.

I would love to see some pictures if you get a chance.

[Woodsy]

Attachment 79859
Serial number S3957

[Peter Laidler]

I've lost track of where this thread is but the factory 'shortie' was nothing more than a short, 1" or so long forward expansion chamber tube that fitted over the front part of the alloy foresight block band in place of the longer standard forward section. 3x shortened rods replaced the standard rods and the standard end cap fitted into the short forward expansion chamber. Locked in place by the notoriously fickle hex recessed locking nuts.

In short, the standard gun did away with the forward expansion or plenum chamber. Not a good move as the plenum chamber acted as a vehicle for another well thought out design to operate properly.

The production guns commenced at S-1001

The foil wrapping was simply commercial oven insulation material cut to size and rolled. It was said to be easy to unroll, clean and re-wrap......... Don't even bother. It is a total pain ITA to do. Just replace every 100 or so rounds. To be honest, if you are shooting sub-sonic ammo then don't even bother to use the vented barrel and all that that entails. Just use a standard modified barrel threaded at the front and machined inside the rear flange. The rear section of the gun is all about not letting the bullet reach the speed of sound - which it won't if it is already sub-sonic! Maybe that will help understand why.......... Won't complicate matters.........

[Vincent]

Attachment 79859
Serial number S3957

Wow! It looks great, Woodsy. Thanks for posting the picture.

does that mean you don't have the diffuser tube inside the rolled screen?

It didn’t come with the tube or screen, just coarse stainless wool. I throw it away and put fresh in when I clean. It’s the same stuff Scotch-Brite stainless scrubbing pads are made from. Costs about $1.50 each time.

... the factory 'shortie' was nothing more than a short, 1" or so long forward expansion chamber tube that fitted over the front part of the alloy foresight block band in place of the longer standard forward section. 3x shortened rods replaced the standard rods and the standard end cap fitted into the short forward expansion chamber. Locked in place by the notoriously fickle hex recessed locking nuts.

In short, the standard gun did away with the forward expansion or plenum chamber. Not a good move as the plenum chamber acted as a vehicle for another well thought out design to operate properly.

Thanks Peter.

Does the end cap need the standard-length plenum to work correctly?

The spiral diffuser is very interesting to me. Do you know how the gas flows through it? I am guessing there’s an interaction between gas flowing through the spiral and gas entering through the center hole?

I am also guessing the spiral creates some kind of vortex in the forward expansion chamber?

[Woodsy]

The spiral diffuser is very interesting to me. Do you know how the gas flows through it? I am guessing there’s an interaction between gas flowing through the spiral and gas entering through the center hole?

I am also guessing the spiral creates some kind of vortex in the forward expansion chamber?

The spiral diffuser is based on the spiral baffle system used in the WW2 De Lisle Commando Carbine. The theory is that as the expanding gases spiral through the baffles they are exposed to a much greater metal surface. This speeds the cooling of the gases and reduces the volume of them so that by the time they have reached the muzzle there is very little residual pressure. The largest part of the muzzle 'bang' of a firearm is the hot gases striking the cool air as they exit. The spiral baffle is an efficient way of cooling the gases without making the silencer body excessively long.