Rifle vs. Gun

[browningautorifle]

"semi educated drill sergant"

Yes. we had those too. Hard to understand some of my leaders that couldn't pronounce their words..."We're sending you on the motorman's course"..."The what?" "Oh, mortarman"...

[Bob Seijas]

Police call at the range: "I want all you mens to pick up every round of unsuspended ammunition."

[.45s r best]

I was in the Coast Guard and when we went for weapons training and qualification I only heard the terms rifle, pistol and shotgun used. We fired the M-16, pump action shotgun and .45 ACP and later the 9mm Beretta. The older NCO's always used to correct us if we used the term "gun", their favorite mantra was "this is my rifle, this my gun...one is for fighting and one is for fun...." I am sure the older members here who were in the service are familiar with that refrain.

[Joe W]

I must admit that I have called "handguns" guns, "shotguns" guns and even some "rifles" guns, but I have never called the U.S. Rifle Cal. .30 M1, a gun. Guess because it was drummed into my head close to 60 years ago, by Parris Island D.I.'s, that "this is my rifle", and I had better never call my RIFLE a GUN. Some of these D.I.'s may have been uneducated, but that may have been because they were on some pacific island or defending some hill in Korea, while others were getting there college degree.

[Seaspriter]

In the Navy, our terminology differed a bit from the Army. Our destroyer's "big guns" referred to our 5 inch 54 which could put a shell over a small mountain range on the Ho Chi Min Trail 15 miles inland, firing at 45-50 rounds a minute (it was designed for 60 r/m, but jammed at that speed). These were dwarfed by the "really big guns" on the cruisers. I recall the first time on duty on the firing line when eight ships -- several cruisers, destroyers, and frigates -- let loose with "gun fire support" barrage almost simultaneously that sent a shock wave that shuddered our ship.

Never did I hear the gunner's mates refer to our "guns" as "rifles" -- the differentiating term was "small arms" meaning anything that could be carried by hand. And small arms, including BARs, M-1s, and 1911 45 ACPs, were kept in the "weapons locker." Any handgun was referred to as a pistol, probably harking back to the days when pistols were flintlocks. Anyone specializing in weaponry was a "gunners mate."

Despite all these references, I must put the greatest credence in the observation of the well respected, indefatigable Mae West: "Is that a gun in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?"

[Patrick Chadwick]

"Pistols are semi automatic..."


Unless they are single-shot.

[Seaspriter]

"Pistols are semi automatic......Unless they are single-shot."

Hum, no wonder there's confusion -- "semi-automatic or single shot" -- wide disparity there! My flintlock pistol, my percussion dueling pistols, and my 1911 Colt are all pistols; but my Colt revolver isn't. Got it. Checking on Colt's website, they agree with you Patrick, stating: "Colt pistols have long represented the gold standard in magazine-fed semi-automatic handguns." But Samuel Colt, the inventor, described his creation as a “revolving pistol.” And if this doesn't confuse the layman, the NRA Firearms Sourcebook, defines a pistol as “a generic term for a hand-held firearm. Often used more specifically to refer to a single-shot, revolver or semi-automatic handgun.” And if a policeman orders an armed man wielding a revolver to "Drop your pistol!" and the armed man doesn't because he believes he's not carrying a pistol but a revolver, is the police officer justified in shooting the man for disobeying an order? Oh well, I guess any person could get confused with this imprecise distinction.

(BTW, I'm not disagreeing with you -- just having a little fun with words.)

[Joe W]

They are all guns (ie. a device that propels a projectile by force of explosive) but they are then divided into families of various types (rifles, pistols, etc.). 'Pistols' may be further subdivided into pistols and revolvers. Everyone knows what a rifle is, and it is the terminology I prefer, even though I am a gunsmith!

This sums it up for me.

[Seaspriter]

If Samuel Colt confused me on pistols, I thought maybe I could get my brain unscrambled and on the right track with Oliver Winchester. Was I soon further perplexed. I pulled out my matched set of 30-30 Winchester Commemoratives. One box was labeled "Rifle" (defined by Winchester as having a 24" barrel). The other box was labeled "Carbine" (because its barrel was only 20" long -- like my Sharps Carbine with a 21" barrel, which no Sharps enthusiasts refers to as a "rifle," or my Enfield Jungle Carbine with an 18" barrel, which no Enfield enthusiast refers to as a "rifle" -- but they all have genuine "rifling"). Hell, Fire, and Damnation! No wonder the world is confused. I keep getting the image in my head of the Abbot & Costello routine "Who's on First?" At the end of the routine, Abbott squawks: "You finally got it right!" and a bewildered Costello cries: "I don't even know what I'm talking about!"

BTW, if you really want to add to the confusion, please someone accurately define "ball ammunition." It can't refer to the bullet's shape, which is a pointed projectile. Olin Corp (owner of Winchester) says it refers to the shape of the powder grains. I've heard different sides of this definition and it has left me

This definitional stuff has been designed to confuse the most analytic engineer and mechanical genius. Just take the definition of "grains" when it comes to ammo (you'd better take this one with a lot of grains of salt). We all know that "grains" is a measure of weight (7000/pound). So a 175 grain cartridge refers to the weight of the bullet, right? Well, often yes, but sometimes no. My 30-30 refers to .30 caliber-with 30 grains of powder/propellant. But the 30-30 bullet is 150 grains. So my 30-06 for my Springfield must have 06 grains of propellant, right? Wrong, the "06" refers to the year 1906, when the cartridge was officially accepted by the US Army. Then my 45-70 ammo for my 1874 Sharps carbine must refer to 1870, right? Wrong, the "70" refers to the weight of the grains of powder/propellant while the 45-70 bullet weighs in at a hefty 300 grains. Something must be wrong with this picture, which seems designed to defeat all sense of logic as nuance overpowers logic.

Guess we just have to laugh or go mad!

[Bob Seijas]

The Mae West pistol quote was her very best one-liner, followed by "Too much of a good thing... is a good thing!: LOL