Assistance Confirming Suspected 1905M Factory Sporter Requested

[Bluenoser]

I have rifles with both higher and lower serial numbers than his rifle.

Would I be correct in understanding you are referring to the serial number on the butt of my 1905R rather than the number on the bbl?

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[Ax.303]

Yes, I was referring to the butt number 422X, but they encompass both.

Closest below is 337X. Closest above is 502X.

I also have 1905-E # 428X, (different animal but marked in the same manner) which is very close to yours.

[flying pig]

Old necro thread bump here gents. But I’ve some insight to add.

There is a 1905-E here, with the 3TPI barrel thread with proper ranged serial stamped on the barrel reinforce in an untidy manor. This rifle has an uncharacteristically short barrel ( I’m away at camp right now but can confirm when I’m home) of around 20”. The barrel will not index properly in any other receiver but its own. It winds up listing about 30* to the left in any other MkII receiver. This rifle has the light wire trigger, matching serial on the inside of the butt plate and butt. It has the E style folding express sight, and a blood red E stock (which must be VERY hard wood as the rifle has no bluing left and the stick has very few handling marks and has never been sanded so far as I can tell).

Theres also an E or R-10 here with no serial numbers anywhere. It has an E stock, buttplate, and grip cap, but has a short 20” barrel and a Winchester buckhorn sight. The set up of the two rifles is so similar they’re kissing cousins.

There was an article published about the manufacture of Ross rifles and bayonets in 1913 in which it stated that Ross barrels were numbered rather than rifles numbered. This was done after the barrels were trued. When I’m home I will try to see if I can find that info in the reprint I have of it and share it. Makes sense to serialize the barrel, that’s why we could be seeing so many unserialed rebarrelled rifles: they’re the ones replaced after the factory closure. Factory replaced barrels should have the 2 or 3 stamped near the serial number.

[Ax.303]

There is a 1905-E here, with the 3TPI barrel thread with proper ranged serial stamped on the barrel reinforce in an untidy manor. This rifle has an uncharacteristically short barrel ( I’m away at camp right now but can confirm when I’m home) of around 20”. The barrel will not index properly in any other receiver but its own. It winds up listing about 30* to the left in any other MkII receiver. This rifle has the light wire trigger, matching serial on the inside of the butt plate and butt. It has the E style folding express sight, and a blood red E stock (which must be VERY hard wood as the rifle has no bluing left and the stick has very few handling marks and has never been sanded so far as I can tell).

Theres also an E or R-10 here with no serial numbers anywhere. It has an E stock, buttplate, and grip cap, but has a short 20” barrel and a Winchester buckhorn sight. The set up of the two rifles is so similar they’re kissing cousins.

Brandon, a few things are not adding up on these. Maybe some pictures would help.

1905-E has a more conventional threaded barrel with different contour, as opposed to the 3 TPI barrel found on 1905-R and the MK II.

The 1905-E will have E, and .303 Ross stamped above the chamber. Even the few factory Rosses I have seen with no serial numbers, all had the proper barrel markings.

You should be able to identify a R-10 or E-10 by the markings, E or R and .303 Ross above the chamber. They will also have last two digits of the serial number stamped on the metal under the buttplate and on the wood in the barrel channel.

Factory barrels are 22, 24, and 26 inches.

[flying pig]

Brandon, a few things are not adding up on these. Maybe some pictures would help.

1905-E has a more conventional threaded barrel with different contour, as opposed to the 3 TPI barrel found on 1905-R and the MK II.

The 1905-E will have E, and .303 Ross stamped above the chamber. Even the few factory Rosses I have seen with no serial numbers, all had the proper barrel markings.

You should be able to identify a R-10 or E-10 by the markings, E or R and .303 Ross above the chamber. They will also have last two digits of the serial number stamped on the metal under the buttplate and on the wood in the barrel channel.

Factory barrels are 22, 24, and 26 inches

Ax, I'm begining to learn that with Rosses, just like Lee-Enfields, we shouldn't always expect the expected. I learn lots of new things with pretty much every new to me rifle I pick up. My latest two are no exception. a MkII** civilian with a low serial number that has the light wire trigger set up like the regular MkII 3TPI rifles, and what appears to be a Cadet Factory Sporter that is both ambidextrous and takedown.

If that low serial numbered MkII** has the early style wire trigger, then a 1905-E definitely could as well. There's something with the serial on the E rifle though, its a humped number or something. It should be earlier I think. Form the serial number lists I've been studying it seems like the 1905-E is a sporter version of the MkII**. Major features seam to go hand in hand by serial range. That rifle could also be an R with upgraded wood, short special order barrel and a two leaf express sight. The E-10 could also be an E that was rebarelled with an R barrel, or something else too, but theres no inletting in the stock for an express sight like an E should have. Maybe its just an upgraded R with a checkered stock, grip cap and buttplate, ordered with an extra short barrel. I'll post pics of the 3 rifles tomorrow, the E-10 with short barrel and buckhorn, the 1905-E with the 3PTI and wire trigger, and the MkII** with the wire trigger.

[Timothy-R]

Noticing this thread for the first time because of the recent posts…

First things first -I don't know anything about this rifle, condition or modifications. Totally ignorant on what a Ross is, being much further south than many of you.

The photo just grabbed me at first sight. Great shape, wonderful wood and character, and no doubt many chapters in its lifetime.. Cool.

No help but just a little applause from the cheap seats.

[Ax.303]

Pictures will tell a lot.

Be sure to include the markings above the chambers and the muzzles showing crowns and front sights.

[flying pig]

Sounds good Alex. Something I did just notice is that neither of these has the DCP proofs as found on all of my other original factory sporters. They may be rebarelled, I'm honestly not 100 percent sure what's up with them. The 1905 has a barrel length of 21", the 1910 is 22". Neither has a factory applied serial number. But, that 1910 has definitely never had an express sight in that barrel channel, and that is 100% an E stock or custom ordered R stock with all the E features.

Here's some photos. As noted, both rifles have had some bubba molestation. A lot of them here have been picked up due to unique features more than anything. If they stand out for some reason I'll usually take them in.

Having photo hosting issues pls standby...

Edit: I see the 1910 has the DCP proof on the reciever faintly. Nothing on the 1905 though.

[Ax.303]

Couple of very interesting ones there Brandon.

I`m not sure what the 1905 is, but it is definitely not an E. It looks a bit like a variation or maybe a prototype of the rare 1905-M 3rd type.

This is the one that is only a drawing in the Ross Rifle Story. Dupuis thought it was just an experimental model as he had never seen one.

There are a few around though as I acquired two, and have seen a few others. They do differ from yours, and all have a unique front sight only found on this type.

Your front sight looks to be the same as a 1905-E, which could be correct or could have been changed when the barrel was shortened.

They also have a rear hand guard and Harris platform. The rear sight and stock profile are the same as your rifle.

I think that you pretty much have the M-10 figured out. It is either a R-10 with a special order late E style stock or an E ordered with R style rear sight.

Is there anything stamped between .303 Ross and the receiver on the barrel?

[flying pig]

Oh….well then. Ha ha. That was not even remotely what I was expecting to hear about that 1905.

It definitely is different. I’ve had probably 10-15 1905 actions and barrels split apart in the past. I thought I would try to replace that D&T’d receiver with a good one I have here, but it won’t work. It doesn’t index properly, it’s out about 30* to port side. I have never run into that before. It would make sense if it was some kind of prototype that where it ended up indexing was ok, but you wouldn’t expect that to leave the factory if it was a production rifle. There’s some restoring and fixing to be done with that one, but it’ll probably wind up with the receiver holes filled. The bore is fair and it should shoot well enough I’d think. Someone also welded the leaf down on the sight so that needs to be carefully addressed. I may rust blue it too. Or, I may just leave it exactly as is too.

There is an R stamped on the 1910 between the 303 Ross and the receiver. It must be an R. Funny it has no serial applied but all the other Ross sporter stamps are present.

The 1905 has none of the typical stamps. It has a circle P stamp on the LHS of the barrel where it should be but it’s double struck.