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  1. #41
    Contributing Member ssgross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy A View Post
    You’re probably overthinking it
    HA! Story of my life...comes in handy in many other circumstances. I settled on my keystone stock. The butt had to be sanded as I mentioned to fix some storage damage, removing its original factory stain.

    So I practiced several different methods on a test piece...including Chuck's method of ball bit on a Dremel to free hand it. Here is what I settled on, which I think worked just perfect. I'm very pleased.
    1. I marked the forward location of the bolt handle root from the top of the stock, then measured 5/8" to the rear. I used a sharp chisel to carve out a notch on top until I reached flush with the bolt notch on the receiver.
    2. Next, I drew straight lines down from the sides of my notch, slight angle to the rear. I used the picture from this post and this one, and in particular the location of the rear stock bolt relative to the sides of the recess as a reference. I then measured 5/8" down from the top of my notch. These became my boundaries.
    3. With sharp chisel, I notched the top of the area, going progressively deeper until the bolt started to close.
    4. I used "jig", which was as simple as two blocks of wood, with the stock in between, in my vice, right side of the stock facing up. I leveled all 3 pieces in both directions. My router sat level on the blocks and, using a 5/8 ball bit lined up with the sides of my template, I plunged straight in until the all that was left of my notched area was the flats at 10 and 2 o'clock.
    5. Test close the bolt, and continue to notch the top of the outboard side until the bolt closes all the way. this enrages the flat areas at 10 and 2.
    6. back into the "jig", and plug into the router in until the flats at 10 and 2 appear perfect.
    7. use the small ball bit on my Dremel to clean up all the rounded parts.

    I'll add pictures shortly. Tonight I will finish sanding the stock and fit/sand the handgaurd. I did a bunch of test pieces with stains over the weekend. I've decided to stain with a 1:1 mix of birchwood Casey walnut, and rusty walnut and finish with raw linseed oilicon - might try usabaker's alkanet root trick in my linseed oilicon...described in this post

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  3. #42
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  5. #43
    Contributing Member ssgross's Avatar
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    So last weekend I made up a bunch of test pieces or walnut for staining. My wife liked a 1:1 mix of birchwood Casey walnut with their rusty walnut. I slept on it for a week and I figure after all this work it deserves something with a bit more character.
    I bought a jar of alkanes root powder, and have a couple tablespoons soaking in 8oz of turpentine right now. Next weekend, I'll heat up some raw linseed oilicon and some of this mixture, then strain it - and put some on a test piece.

  6. #44
    Legacy Member 1903Collector's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssgross View Post
    I scored another Springfield sporter to work on, should be delivered this week.
    Attachment 118336Attachment 118337Attachment 118338
    The original old-style Redfield base and rings are a nice bonus, but it's just another cut back 1903A3 right???
    Not so fast..., the very last picture
    Attachment 118339

    I'll be keen to closely handle and examine the bolt body. Does it look like it could be original? There was no picture of the serial number, but it was in the description...3,12x,xxx. My homework points to 3,4xx,xxx being the official start of the A4 program. I wonder if the seller read the second digit wrong, or if this is something else entirely. Either way, considering the base, already drilled and tapped, milled bottom metal, and a formed bolt handle the price was a bargain. Were they randomly selecting for A4's before the initial dedicated consecutive run?

    I'll be restoring this one to something close to it's original service glory, in due time. A few other rifle projects are ahead in line.
    If thats not an A4 its a WELL DONE fake and Ill eat my hat! Remove the bluing, lightly sand blast and repark!
    Too bad about the barrel. Find a '43 RA barrel in good shape, carefully remove front sight and key, de-grease and repark. Since good '43 RA barrels are just a bit scarce, find an early '44 RA NOS barrel and do the same!

    Trigger guard is '03. You need the RA A3 Winter Trigger Guard with special support gusset. Ive got some.

    Base and rings are commercial. Rings are not at all USGI in shape.
    Bolt handle...Im leaning to NOT USGI, but would need more and better pics. Bolt assembly looks to be missing the proper cocking knob.

    Still, all in all, a good find, especially if priced at A3 sporter prices.

    As to the SN, no, there was no early receiver cherry picking. In fact, most of the 20000 first block A4 receivers came from the last RA '03A1 modified production (the RA 03A1 modified SN range ended in 3364954)! There were 3 blocks of SNs allocated for A4 receivers - 3407088 - 3427087, 4000001 - 4015000, and 4992001 - 4999045. There were only approx. 28,365 A4 receivers made! My guess is that the SN of that gun is 342xxxx, making it a late 1st block A4. That means an early '43 barrel will be best, but ANY A3 RA barrel in good condition, with no marks in the front sight area, and reparked there will do nicely.

  7. #45
    Legacy Member 1903Collector's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by browningautorifleicon View Post
    It will, don't worry. That marking is clear enough.
    Agreed!

    ---------- Post added at 04:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:36 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ssgross View Post
    I'm very curious about this serial since it doesn't fall in the "correct" range. I imagine they were making A4's before they started the full production program with consecutive serials?
    just got an email from my FFL. They didn't say anything about a serial number discrepancy on the paperwork. hopefully I can get in this weekend to get it.


    price hasn't changed much, I paid $550. The seller had 13 photo's, none of which showed much worth looking at, and the last one showed "US Remington" in the right spot above. My guess is no one else bothered to look through to the end.
    A STEAL to be sure! WELL DONE!

  8. #46
    Legacy Member 1903Collector's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssgross View Post
    Picked it up this afternoon. Had the whole thing apart and pulled the barrel in about 15 minutes with no issues. The stock had been bedded with what looked like orange colored wood glue...the entire area around the receiver, as well as the magazine. Couple apps of the old rubber mallet broke it loose.
    I now know why the seller didn't take more pictures...here is the serial. After I wiped off the old dried oil, second digit was clearly a 4.
    Attachment 118388

    Front ring was not tight in the dovetail, so I may not be able to save the base unless the original rings are the fault. I can always try to lightly peen the slot with a large drift to tighten it up. Brass shim inside the front ring, and a single shim under the front of the base. The ring tops were ornate. Scope and lenses were in good shape, sans some wear on the exterior.
    Attachment 118389Attachment 118390Attachment 118391

    Is the bolt original?
    Attachment 118392Attachment 118393Attachment 118394Attachment 118395

    I remember chuck telling me on the phone that when he lightly bead blasts, it makes the markings more defined. I hope that is the case and the serial number cleans up a bit. I doubt it's possible to re-strike? Anyone know anyone that does that?

    Now back to the krag project

    Get original or repro MilSpec rings and check the base then. One BIG thing to watch out for, (AND THIS IS IMPORTANT!), the rear ring windage nuts on commercial bases may be a different size (slightly larger diameter) and will not properly fit and secure an original MilSpec ring (and probably not the repros either!) The proper rings require the smaller nuts that are found on an original "MilSpec" A4 base (dont know about the repros, but I doubt they are different). I have a source for the small windage nuts if you need them. In any case, if the "milspec" front ring fails to fit snug to the later commercial base Id get an original or repro MilSpec base. You can try peening, but that will never be reliable nor permanent and there is a chance that the ring will not seat fully square horizontally on top of the base.

    Bolt looks original, or VERY close to original. When comparing the pics to Harrison's drawing (type 7, pg. 36) I am not able to convince myself that it isnt original! Also, original A4 bolt bodies were blued, AND not polished. Id re-blue the bolt (even cold bluing if you prepare the metal well).

    DO NOT TRY TO RE-STRIKE THE SN!!!!!!!! Leave it, it is GOOD enough!

    I cant WAIT to see the finished rifle!

    ---------- Post added at 05:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:56 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ssgross View Post
    HA! Story of my life...comes in handy in many other circumstances. I settled on my keystone stock. The butt had to be sanded as I mentioned to fix some storage damage, removing its original factory stain.

    So I practiced several different methods on a test piece...including Chuck's method of ball bit on a Dremel to free hand it. Here is what I settled on, which I think worked just perfect. I'm very pleased.
    1. I marked the forward location of the bolt handle root from the top of the stock, then measured 5/8" to the rear. I used a sharp chisel to carve out a notch on top until I reached flush with the bolt notch on the receiver.
    2. Next, I drew straight lines down from the sides of my notch, slight angle to the rear. I used the picture from this post and this one, and in particular the location of the rear stock bolt relative to the sides of the recess as a reference. I then measured 5/8" down from the top of my notch. These became my boundaries.
    3. With sharp chisel, I notched the top of the area, going progressively deeper until the bolt started to close.
    4. I used "jig", which was as simple as two blocks of wood, with the stock in between, in my vice, right side of the stock facing up. I leveled all 3 pieces in both directions. My router sat level on the blocks and, using a 5/8 ball bit lined up with the sides of my template, I plunged straight in until the all that was left of my notched area was the flats at 10 and 2 o'clock.
    5. Test close the bolt, and continue to notch the top of the outboard side until the bolt closes all the way. this enrages the flat areas at 10 and 2.
    6. back into the "jig", and plug into the router in until the flats at 10 and 2 appear perfect.
    7. use the small ball bit on my Dremel to clean up all the rounded parts.

    I'll add pictures shortly. Tonight I will finish sanding the stock and fit/sand the handgaurd. I did a bunch of test pieces with stains over the weekend. I've decided to stain with a 1:1 mix of birchwood Casey walnut, and rusty walnut and finish with raw linseed oil - might try usabaker's alkanet root trick in my linseed oil...described in this post
    No, no, no...dont stain it! You may be amazed of the result of just applying Boiled Linseed Oil. Ive finished scores of NOS and repro stocks and NEVER stain them. The US stopped staining the 1903s quite early. An A4 was NEVER stained!!!!!!!!! You can always stain it later, but I dont think you will want to after the first coat! BLOicon vs. raw Linseed Oil...ya gotta cut the raw linseed oil with a solvent just right if you want it to dry in your lifetime! Ive used BLOicon for years with absolutely fantastic results (and yes, Ive got raw Linseed Oil too and my experience is best not described in polite company!) ;-)

    ---------- Post added at 05:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:02 PM ----------

    Great job on the bolt notch! But sanding the stock!!!! Why? It is my understanding that the A4 stocks were never sanded, just dipped in BLO (never stained) and dried! Id go USGI all the way! Again, you can always sand later if you are set on doing that!

  9. #47
    Contributing Member ssgross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1903Collector View Post
    Great job on the bolt notch! But sanding the stock!!!! Why?
    if you didn't catch it in this now long thread, my stock that I am going with is a NOS replacement scant from Keystone. They stained theirs but did not oil. This particular stock had quite some damage - rounded slashes on the butt - that couldn't be left alone, which is why it was sanded. It's hanging up in the shop now ready to go. The underlying wood is nice. After mulling over my test pieces, I decided not to stain, at least not along my original thoughts.

    I've got all the other correct parts sourced, cleaned, re-blued where needed (trigger gaurd came out nice, see above), and ready to go. Just need to oil the stock and assemble...and shoot it. Well, I haven't refinished the bolt yet. still deciding what I want to do with it. It came to me in the white, with much grey patina on the handle, and some scattered pitting/etching. Once the stock is done...it might look banging with a mirror polish against the new park job. I'm not trying to pass it off as original, just keeping to the spirit of the history as close as I can afford.

    I paused last week to consider, while playing with my newly arrived Underwood (in another thread). The stock on that carbine needed a lot of work, and getting all the oil and grime out left it parched and took out much of the original color with it - it was bad, some oil spots had started to soften the wood. So, I took a page out of usabaker's playbook and mixed 2 Tbsp's of alkanet root powder with 6oz or so of turpentine. Shook it every few hours for a few days, then used it 1:1 with raw linseed oilicon on that carbine stock. I'm sold...it puts just the right hint of color deep into the grain, instead of having it sit on top hiding the grain like real stains (and the original stain that was on this NOS scant).

    This week/end I might go a step further, and polymerize some raw linseed oilicon first, add in my alkanet, let it mellow in the window for a few days, and use it to finish this A4.
    Last edited by ssgross; 12-08-2021 at 08:12 PM.

  10. #48
    Contributing Member ssgross's Avatar
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    Sorry folks. After the blackout I started digging for progress pics to add back in. I think I've lost most of the early ones. I usually take them on a phone, upload to my dropbox account to post here, then I periodically purge my dropbox when pics eat up too much storage. When I'm all done, I'll post a series of before/after from what I can recover.

    Been spending the last couple weeks working on the stock finish. Here is how it's turning out.

    The lighting is misleading. There is way more depth of color and grain contrast than what is showing up. I am very pleased.
    The handguard didn't turn out so well. After sanding it, and duplicating my process along with the stock...there is a streak of sapwood in it covering most of the rear right side, which developed no color and looks awful. Thankfully I have a few more NOS hand guards, one of which seems to be turning and will be just perfect in another week or so.

    For finish...I bought 1lb jar of alkanet powder on amazon. I put 3 heaping table-spoons in an 8 ounce jar, topped off with turpentine, and shook it up every day for a week, then strained in a coffee filter. I also made a second jar with alcohol. Color in the latter is very pronounced in just a single coat, but seems to sit on top of the grain. The turpentine stain takes several applications to reach same depth of color, but penetrates deeper. I'm no expert, but I would describe it as added depth, nuance, and complexity over the alcohol stain. It has a more natural look to it. I did maybe 4 coats? drying for an hour or two in between.

    The next weekend, I went to the porch and heated up a quart of raw linseed oilicon to 460ish F, held it there for 20 minutes or so, cooled and strained out the couple insects that decided to dive-bomb the pot and fry themselves. I mixed this 1:1 with my turpentine stain to create a red oil, and oiled rubbed it in liberally daily last week, letting it sit for a couple hours before wiping off the excess. Now I'm rubbing in straight raw linseed oilicon (well, the stuff that I heated up). Pics above are after two iterations, on two consecutive days. I'll rub some more on in a weeks time, then let it cure before assembling. I need to grind down/fit the tang bushing, and rust blue the cross bolts - of course I need to figure out how to finish the bolt. It's mostly in the white still from bubba, save for the grey patina on the knob and some scattered etching and light pitting. I'm thinking of rust bluing it at some point. May just polish it mirror bright for now for a little flair. Oh, and don't let me forget to finish ream the chamber after lapping lugs!

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  12. #49
    Legacy Member Mt203's Avatar
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    Someone on gunbroker just got a sporterized late 1st block for $825 tonight. I was watching it but have so many projects right now.

  13. #50
    Contributing Member ssgross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mt203 View Post
    Someone on gunbroker just got a sporterized late 1st block for $825 tonight. I was watching it but have so many projects right now.
    got this one on gunbroker much cheaper than that for 550 - with what looks like an original scope base. The pictures weren't the greatest...barrel was clearly cut back with some surface rust. Only the last picture showed the receiver up close enough to see an older style mount with single hole in front...and US Remington way off center. I don't remember more than a couple other bidders - likely didn't pay attention to the last pic of the listing.

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