Speed-Lee markings

[EnfieldNutt84]

Im going to send over the pictures this afternoon, been a bit busy lately so please excuse the delay, It appears I have the Cavalry carbine styled Buttstock, which would make sense i would think for an off shore contracted trade pattern. It looks like they only differ in magazines for the most part from the Speed pattern.

[Jc5]

I don't understand what your last sentence means, but if you post or send some photos, I'm sure we can figure it out.

[TerryS]

That crown was used on the coins of the Kingdom of Abyssinia. The last coins before a Ethiopian coinage reform. The characters look like Ethiopic/Amharac. The upper "MO" and the lower "RE". start looking there.

[TerryS]

This may show up twice. Try Ethiopia. That crown was used on coins from the Kingdom of Abyssinia.

Ethiopia: Harar. Menelik II Mahaleki EE1885 (1892),... Ethiopia

The characters may be Ethiopic, the one under the crown "MO" and the lower one "RE".

[Rowdy]

The buttplates used by BSA for commercial models tended to be what was in use on the military rifle production line at the time.
BSA/LSA did not have a contract to make cavalry carbines for the government and therefore did not make the brass carbine buttplate.
The #1 & 2 carbines however had a special steel Martini type with butt trap.
The #3 started with the MLE type and later models used the SMLE I*/III type after it became available.
The #4 started with the steel SMLE I type and then the SMLE I*/III type.
The commercial MLE rifles were the same as the military models until the SMLE I*/III type became available - the CLLE (territorial) pattern also used the SMLE I*/III type.
Sling swivels also followed the same theme so they were probably just selecting butts from their military contract production line.

[EnfieldNutt84]

well done, the crown and the logo appear on the coin the "go" logo I have been calling it, the reason my other photos will not work on this site is that they r too big, i have to take them to a machine with some sort of editing software, my now dead desktop had photoshop which was nice but I think we have a winner.

[EnfieldNutt84]

Rowdy,
So in other words this is a contract to ethiopia No 3 or 4 Lee Speed and the brass most commonly used style buttplate with trap is most likely correct then?
CLLE, which one is this? Im a bit confused i admit.

[EnfieldNutt84]

Or Abyssinian Territorial use, Trade Pattern 3 or 4 makes sense. Now to find out what those markings mean.

[Jc5]

Thanks to Terry and Rowdy for your posts!

EnfieldNutt,

A few things:
1) If you send me the photos--no matter how large--I will shrink them and post them here on the forum for everyone to see. Just send me a PM.

2) We don't know that BSA fulfilled any contracts to Ethiopia, and if they did, it's unlikely that it would be for this model. If anyone has evidence for this, please share. It could be that this was a private purchase by someone in Ethiopia.

3) You mentioned several times the "No. 4." This is not a No.4 ---neither a No.4 Lee Enfield service rifle from the 1940s (obviously), nor a BSA Trade pattern No.4, which had entirely different furniture. It was set up more like a sporter. Looks nothing like this one. Your rifle looks most like a BSA trade pattern No. 3, but it could be a No.1 (is there any checkering on the wood? You mentioned "original wood cutting grooves"--do you mean checkering?). It might also be a No. 2 Trade pattern whose nose cap has been replaced. It is not a No. 4 of any kind.

4) You said , "The SN is located in front of the sear on the receiver left side." I still do not understand what location you're talking about. Is this number up toward the breech end of the barrel, or back near the trigger? And it is 1575?

5) Do I understand you correctly that 1575 appears in only TWO places on this gun; on the bolt handle, and also on the left side of the receiver?

6) Where is the BSA stamp? On the barrel or on the butt? Does it say "BSA Co." (exactly those letters and nothing else) on the wrist strap?

7) When I asked about the "Lee Speed Patents" stamp, I meant a stamp that says exactly those words: "Lee Speed Patents." I will assume there is no such stamp or you would have mentioned it.

8) Where is the Sold out of Service stamp? On the wooden butt stock, or on the rifle? Is it two inward pointing arrows, or something else?

9) Is there a Crown over BM stamp?

10) Regarding the "UV" mark--is it on the brass buttplate tang, or on the wood?

11) The very curious thing about this rifle (apart from the Ethiopian stamp) is the nose cap. It is not the kind usually offered, and seems like a replacement---just where it came from I cannot tell without seeing a better picture.

12) You mentioned that it came with two butt stocks...obviously only one is original to this rifle, but you seem to suspect that the one that is unattached might be the original, because of the matching color of the wood. Do I understand you correctly?

It is a very interesting rifle---thank you for posting it! I hope we can figure out its story.

[EnfieldNutt84]

The 1575 is the SN it is located by the breech, same side as the mag stop, it also appears on the bolt handle, the UV is on the top flat bit of the brass buttplate, the out of service markings are on the nose cap, i have to look to c if there are others i cannot remember off hand, the B.S.A.co is present by the trigger guard same side but nothing else on this part. 1575 is also on the bolt handle. There is no checkering I meant the actual saw cutting marks on the timber at the nose cap, the buttstock has the BSA logo on the bottom of it. i cannot see any BM logo unless its the cursive one under the crown i cant make out i forget what this marking is.
I tried sending the picutres over to you via this method but its giving me the same hassle, im going to email them to myself then resize them on a different machine tomorrow, sorry for the delay.