My dad gave me a Sante Fe 1903A3 with s/n # 5,005,375. He didn't know much about it.

[Chuckindenver]

this is common of what i have found with people looking for {advise} on Nat Ord, and Santa Fe, rifle,s...most are really looking for a cheering section telling them.
that the rifles are a great cheap alterantive to a 600.00 Genuine WW2 rifle, that they are prefectly safe, and get weekly trips to the range, shot with hot handloads, will no ill effects.
however..
when they are faced with {facts} about these rifles from well known collectors, shooters, gunsmiths, and experts...thats not good news...and like most people they dont want that..
so rather then say...thankyou for the imput, replace the action with one thats known to be safe and a real GI action...total cost to swap it out with the action, is likely less then 300.00
they will go ahead and shoot the rifle until it fails. or even worse, sell it off at a gunshow to someone unsuspection like they were until they were told it was unsafe.
then it starts all over again..
many years ago as a young man wanting to start collecting WW2 rifles like my dad,. i picked up such a turd at a gunshow from a dealer that knew it was unsafe..i was 19 i belive at the time.. came walking back to the table with said rifle with pride on my face,..my dad saw this POS and asked who i picked it up from..i told him...he grabbed the rifle from my hands, and walked it back...chewed the guys butt, and said...even after I told you it was unsafe...you resold it,..and too my own Son, well the guy gave my money back to my dad,
i got a hard lesson, and a butt chewing as well. was i happy? no.. did i learn? yes, later that year was i saw the first failure from one of these ticking time bombs at our rifle range during hunting season sight in, ..and my dad made it a point to say, remember,...that could have been you.
for any years on these forums i was pretty easy on my opinions of these rifles, until one guy didint think i knew what i was talking about...after all his gunsmith said it was fine...headspaced just fine...those arm chair experts on the net dont know what they are talking about , and so on..well, his rifle is the one i posted a picture of.
he was lucky...just got a little cuts and bruises... since then....i dont pull punches....these rifles are unsafe...junk..turds, scrap heap bound...only value they have is the salvageble GI parts used to make them work...non of them should ever be shot.....not ever.
this in no way is an attack on the owners of said rifles, or an insult to the family members the they got said rifle from..
iv offered and alt, so that you can keep grandpas rifle in service for future family to enjoy...heck...if you buy the action..ill swap it for free if i can cut a large notch in the cast actions receiver ring and send it back so that i know no one in the future will be temped to bring it back to life.

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[jonnyc]

Ah, you're back. Please keep your homilies, platitudes, and home-spun wisdom, a simple request has been made. You have declared all 2000 (now 25,000) of these rifles unsafe. You have told of a bunch that you have personally seen fail and others that didn't pass your inspection. Were they Sante Fe? Were they National Ordnance? What were the serial number ranges?

[Mike Haas]

Ah, you're back. Please keep your homilies, platitudes, and home-spun wisdom, a simple request has been made. You have declared all 2000 (now 25,000) of these rifles unsafe. You have told of a bunch that you have personally seen fail and others that didn't pass your inspection. Were they Sante Fe? Were they National Ordnance? What were the serial number ranges?

jonnyc - "A TROLL" - You're not gonna convince him!! He's argue'ing for the sake of argueing.. No way can anybody save anyone else from being stupid after they have recieived good info and advice

[jonnyc]

A troll with 240 posts?!?!?!?
**** off. Somebody professes to be an authority they should be able to substantiate what they say. Some of you saps are suffering from too much hero-worship. Lots of repeated BS being spouted here, but no answers.
The rifles are bad!
Which ones?
All of them!
Why?
Cuz I say so!
Got any info to back that up?
I don't need any, everyone knows it!
How?
Cuz I say so!
And a new twit says I'm a troll?!?!?!? Is that the level this forum has now reached? Well, there are a few sharp cookies here, and then there are a lot of internet hacks stroking each other. Guess I know who's on the '03 forum.
Thanks for the help. Way to answer legit questions. Have another beer. Goobers.

[Mike Haas]

A troll with 240 posts?!?!?!?
**** off. Somebody professes to be an authority they should be able to substantiate what they say. Some of you saps are suffering from too much hero-worship. Lots of repeated BS being spouted here, but no answers.
The rifles are bad!
Which ones?
All of them!
Why?
Cuz I say so!
Got any info to back that up?
I don't need any, everyone knows it!
How?
Cuz I say so!
And a new twit says I'm a troll?!?!?!? Is that the level this forum has now reached? Well, there are a few sharp cookies here, and then there are a lot of internet hacks stroking each other. Guess I know who's on the '03 forum.
Thanks for the help. Way to answer legit questions. Have another beer. Goobers.

It appears you just suddenly "blew up" with just a bit of provocation.. as you've been repeatly told thats what happens to cheap imitations..

[Chuckindenver]

A troll with 240 posts?!?!?!?
**** off. Somebody professes to be an authority they should be able to substantiate what they say. Some of you saps are suffering from too much hero-worship. Lots of repeated BS being spouted here, but no answers.
The rifles are bad!
Which ones?
All of them!
Why?
Cuz I say so!
Got any info to back that up?
I don't need any, everyone knows it!
How?
Cuz I say so!
And a new twit says I'm a troll?!?!?!? Is that the level this forum has now reached? Well, there are a few sharp cookies here, and then there are a lot of internet hacks stroking each other. Guess I know who's on the '03 forum.
Thanks for the help. Way to answer legit questions. Have another beer. Goobers.

real class act...shoot them and enjoy. no hero here my friend just facts.

[Aragorn243]

jonnyc,

Do you want first hand information or not? Chuck just provided some and you go off and try and insult the man. There is a lot of BS being spouted but not by Chuck I'm afraid. And just because you post a lot doesn't mean much if the quality of those other posts are the same as those on this subject.

You just can't get it in your head that this is a matter of safety concerning a very dangerous product. You demand answers from us showing how dangerous these are, in essence acting like 3 to 200 known failures out of 25000 is acceptable. What other modern rifle has such a high failure rate, and yes, that is a high failure rate. You seem to think it isn't, prove it. Show us the failure rates for other rifles. I'm sure they are out there, documented by batch, serial number and date of manufacture.

[2aimtrue]

I'm not an expert but it would seem to me that the superiority of a forged and heat-treated receiver over a cast unit in a high-stress, inherently dangerous application of a firearm should be self-evident. So any attempt to justify the use of potential exceptions of that inferior production method by breaking it down to manufacturers, lots or SNs is a waste of time and energy. The vagaries of the casting process at that time and by those foundries cannot guarantee any consistency from unit to unit. Just my 2c.

[supercub]

"Ok, just to set the stage, I have BA's in History, and International Relations, and a Master's in History. I've been teaching all sorts of military history at high school level for 17 years. I have been collecting and studying milsurps for at least 25 years. I've seen and read the opinions of lots of very knowledgeable people in books, in the flesh, and on-line. I feel comfortable saying "never" over the idea that a rifle made in Russia 1945 could have been issued to a Soviet soldier, captured by the Germans, overhauled and inspected, and reissued to a German, all between January and May 1945. I don't believe the Germans would have had the time, manpower, or inclination to make such a rifle possible, they had much more serious things to deal with.
I have seen and heard some pretty strange things in my life, but NEVER is no problem for me under the right circumstances." Jonnyc

And Chuck doesn't have years and years in the gunsmithing business? Seems like you, with all your credentials? would have no problem doing your own research on this. Many have attempted to steer you in the right direction, including myself. The tools are yours to do with what you want.

[supercub]

Chuck, here's another "hero".....

Seller: jake1(40-0-0) Post#14 - Posted: 04/22/2011 at 07:58:27


RustyTrifle,

I have been "smithing" for way over thirty years now and have NEVER seen a good National Ord receiver of any kind. They were castings of the lowest order. Even after they morphed into Fed Ord the quality did not improve much - moved up to around the same level as a low end Yugo, we all know the quality there. While I was working in Pico Rivera for Northrop we used to go over to Fed Ord after work to look at the "stuff". I saw many Springfields with both National Ord and their own Fed Ord receivers all were really cheap. We did, however, buy several of the 1903's to strip for GI parts, we then cut the receivers lengthwise and across - we found absesses, soft spots, and internal cracks in virtually all of them. To this day I will not consider one for purchase nor will I take one in for repair or customizing.