Ross 1905 marking question and some other general newbie questions.

[ghost_rider]

I recently bought a ross rifle. I have been craving a military surplus rifle. after seeing it at a local gun shop I went home and researched these rifles. I read about how the bolts come out and smack the shooter in the face. I still wanted this rifle mainly because of the sliding bolt action. it was unique to me and for some reason I had to have it. I figured if it can hit a claybird at 75yds at least I can use it for a deer/bear gun for hunting. I also admired the machine work on this rifle since I am a machinist by trade. Just that kinda stuff is cool to me. Well after going back and looking it over again I decided to purchase this rifle. The only thing I knew for certain was its cambering.
It has been about a week and I have been doing a bunch of research. I did shoot the gun and it is accurate enough to hit a 2" bull at 50yds. I believe it is capable of better accuracy if I used something better then umc FMJ rounds. I noticed that the spent casings were blown out larger then a unfired casing. From research I found that many ross rifles were bored out so the ammunition would cycle through them better. I also noticed that on the barrel where the rear sight would be there are two bolt holes that appeared to be filled in with solder and then filed down so it is smooth with the barrel. The two holes are not in line however. But are staggered with one on one side and the other on the other side further forward on the barrel. The gun is actually a 1905 ross. I do not know the serial number however. Mainly because there is none.
As you can see in the pictures there is a really rough peep sight someone installed. Along with the stock modified. The forearm appears to be original but modified by someone earlier in life. As well the front sight does not appear to be original either. What is extremely surprising is that the gun shot on at 50yds. with the crude setup I was expecting something less then spectacular when I walked up to the target. Now that I know that the gun is accurate enough to hunt with I have a few questions.
First off I was wondering if anyone knows what the markings are on this firearm. on the left hand of the barrel forward of the chamber there is what appears to be a seal. At the top of this seal there is a crown with crossed swords. The letter C is visible in the left hand side of the seal and the letter P is visible in the bottom of the seal. There appears to be a letter in the right hand side of the seal but I cannot make it out. Below the seal there is a crown and what appears to be the letter I or the number 1. Below that is either a C or a G. on the back of the bolt there is a set of crossed flags a crown then I believe it is 3 or a 6 and below that is a Q. on the bottom of the bolt there is the number stamped 23. When up push the bolt forward you can read the number 15 on the bolt while it rotates into position to lock the bolt forward. Last but not least there is a crown and the number 9 stamped into the back of the receiver behind the bolt that holds the back of the action tight to the stock. These are the only markings on this gun. I do not know anything more about it.

Now that is all out I have a few questions. I absolutely hate the peep that is on it. I do not know who put it on but it is very crude looking and not to mention there is not adjustment. I was thinking about putting an adjustable peep sight on the gun but was wondering what you guys thoughts were on this project. The goal is to be able to make this a hunting rifle out to 100-150yds. The rifling looks great for a 100year old rifle. The bolt is tight for the machining practices in the day. what are you guys suggestions on how to find a peep sight that will fit on this rifle and or how to modify one to fit on this rifle with some gunsmithing work.

Thanks for any help you guys could provide me. I might end up buying an enfield off my boss if he offers it to me for the right price. we'll see. along with I want a k98 mauser too.

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[boltaction]

Could you take a photo of the left hand receiver rail please--where the maker mark should be?

Thx

Ed

[smellie]

Hi, Ghost Rider!

First and most important: welcome to the Wonderful World of Ross Rifles!

Your rifle is an ex-military Model of 1905. You can tell because commercial Rosses of this period had a serial number on the left-hand side of the chamber, very small. Your rifle does not have this, so it is military for sure. not that that's bad: commercial and military rifles all were made to the same very high standard on the same line and the only difference was the markings. Military rifles were serialled on the right-hand side of the butt. Your butt has been changed, so any information which was there has been lost.

You have NO worries about the bolt blowing back. This just did not happen with the 1905. I have managed (with a lot of work) to assemble a 1905 bolt incorrectly and actually get it into a well-worn rifle, but it would not reciprocate: rock-solid.... and it was a proper b*tch to get out. The model with the bolt problems was the M-10.... of which I have nearly a dozen.... and I still have my face, ugly though it may be, and all my fingers. But you don't need to worry about that.

Your rifle shows the Dominion Proof markings on the LH side: the Crown above crossed flags with the letters DC to the sides and P unerneath: Dominion of Canada Proof. The Proof House was in a small building at the side of the Ross factory and it was staffed by Army personnel. Ross did not control their own Proof House, although (in typical Canadian fashion) they were allowed to pay for it. Your other markings all seem to be inspectors' marks and assembly numbers, the rifles being ssembled in batches.

That ugly strap thingus on the LH side of your rifle is a mount for a receiver sight. Sights are available, some of them very accurately-made and capable of extemely fine adjustment. This was needed, the Ross being widely regarded as the most accurate rfle in the world.

Don't let the brass expansion throw you. Some of the chambers, especially the early ones, were more than generous. Best cure for them is one of those spiffy new Lee Collet Dies in .303" calibre. It skooshes the case-neck against a ground mandrel so that all you are doing is neck-sizing your own brass. Makes for superaccurate ammo because your cases already are fire-formed to your chamber, so no pressure is wasted expanding the casing again.

Commercial 1905 Rosses, BTW, used the same rear sight as the Winchester '94. Ross purchsed these sights directly from Winchester for this rifle. It sits in a dovetail and so is a PITA to mount. You are much better-off looking for a good aperture sight.

My test load for the .303 is a Sierra 180 Pro-Hunter flatbase ahead of 38 grains of 4895 powder, bullet seated to the OAL of a military Ball round. Very accurate and not hot at all. My 1910 off the old HMS CANADA thinks this load is candy, touches holes at 100 regularly.

Hope this is some help.

You have a Very Fine Toy. Glad you appreciate it!
.

[ghost_rider]

the left side of the receiver has the same thing on that all the other ross rifles do. without the rifle in front of me I believe it says ross rifle company quebec canada 1905. below that it says patented.

when I picked it up the guys at the store said it was a cadet rifle. I didn't particularly believe him at all. I figured a military rifle someone picked up and brought back to the states and sporterized. Thanks for the information on the gun. Do you know of any places to buy a sight that might fit with some gunsmith work? It doesn't have to be orginal because frankly the gun was never purchased with that intent. I just want something I can adjust and have more faith in then the crude looking sight on it now.

[Surpmil]

Buy yourself a new barrel and as a machinist you can have fun turning the 2 TPI thread that it needs. Undo the screw on the underside of the action below the threads, a couple of whacks with a soft hammer and the existing barrel should unscrew by hand.

It's already been chopped beyond recovery so you might was well make a nice project out of it.

Over on the Ross Forum mentioned in another thread here, there are some photos of a superb takedown built on an action like yours.

[oldpaul]

G-rider, As you correctly determined, you have a 1905 Mk2 Ross. Most, if not all, the original military sights for these rifles were fully adjustable peep sights. The Ross Rifle Forum people can steer you to someone who has a rear sight available that will mount in the original location. Your barrel will have an unusual 3 tpi, left-hand thread, you have to turn it clockwise to remove it. However, if this barrel is hunter accurate (your stated use), why change it? As to the over expanded brass; if you handload, neck size as recommended previously and if you use only commercial ammo, misshapen brass doesn't matter. The two thumbnail pics are the sights on my MkII 5* but there are many variations. Tom

[ghost_rider]

I really do not want to rebarrel the gun. at this point it isn't worth it. and honestly I think that if I would handload I would get better groups which is most likely going to happen. but that sight you have pictured was the one on the gun I have. I can tell because of the two mounting bolts it use. they might have even been pins that the sight was pressed onto. what is the name of it and do you have a person I can look into buying one? I was thinking about buying a williams peep sight and drilling the reciever to mount it. since making it orginal is out of the question obviously. thanks for the help.

[oldpaul]

My rear sight was made by Canada Tool & Speciality Co., New Glasgow, Nova Scotia, also called the last version of the Pilblad sight. Contact Barryj@localnet.com for an original rear sight. Since your rifle is no longer easily (or cheaply) restorable, I think your idea of a Williams sight is a good option. Barry will likely ask a series of seemingly inane questions but he is a total Ross geek and knows whereof he speaks. Let us know how it goes. Tom