M17 in Italy?

[A. F Medic]

Watched History Channel (nothing else to do) about the battles in Italy. What caught my eye was that a Brit was guarding a bunch of Italian POWS and I saw he had a distinct paint band on his rifle forearm. Video was in B&W so I could only guess that it was 30/06 Red. Strange!

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[smellie]

Interesting!

Another forum just posted a photo taken at Ortona during the fighting, of a Canadian sniper with a P.-'14 with a Warner & Swayze scope. Definitely War Two photo: he has a Bren Gun beside him.

Sportered Rosses (with the bayonets tied on with string) were issued in Canada for POW duty and equipment was tight at times. Not surprising that second-line troops might not have the latest, just so long as it ate ammo that you could get.

In early 1942, Canada had an RCAF base at Boundary Bay, British Columbia. You had to actually go THROUGH the USA from Canada to get to the RCAF base. After Pearl Harbour, the off-duty guys on coast watch were issued M-1917 rifles (called, in Canadian Service, the "P-'17") and told, "If the Japs land, fire 5 rounds and run like hell!" Because of severe ammunition shortages at that tme, the men were issued RIFLES which they then cleaned, but AMMO was so tight that thewatch going off-duty turned ove their 5 rounds per man to the oncoming shift.
Once they got the Hurricanes up in the air and the expiry date on some of the MG ammo was passed, there was lots of ammo for coast watch and for target practice, but it was tight at first.
.

[mack]

I don't want to leave anyone feeling insulted, but not all troops were frontline and not all were issued the latest in technology. Troops weren't supposed to be categorized that I am aware in any Allied army, but such took place as older men might have different assignments than younger, the physically fit more rigorous duty than those with some disability, etc., etc. Even race was a reason for categorizing, at least here in the US where blacks were routinely given "labor" assignments.

While troops up front may have had M1's, No. 4's and Thompsons, the cooks, drivers and laborers were usually issued something less "state-of-the-art." A paint-banded P-14 sounds like it may have been drawn from war reserves and found its way on to prison detail.

I once worked with a WWII vet who did double duty in the South Pacific as a cook because he could bake. He also stood guard duty many nights and had an '03 to shoot at the occasional Japanese patrol searching for food or prisoners. He was fairly accomplished with it until the Japs brought along a MG one night and upset his bread rising for breakfast chowline. He had better sense than to take on a machine gun with a bolt gun though. He asked his captain the next day if he could get a Browning to fight off the encroaching Japs and was told the "soldiers on the frontline needed those." He then impolitely reminded the captain that the "frontline" began about twenty yards behind the mess operation. He got busted back to private, but in a night or two a well-worn BAR showed up in the mess for him to use, which he did until the threat was relieved. I suppose the Japs didn't know the BAR had a lot of miles on it, but they did at least recognized that someone had new technology.

[Malygris]

I once worked with a WWII vet who did double duty in the South Pacific as a cook because he could bake. He also stood guard duty many nights and had an '03 to shoot at the occasional Japanese patrol searching for food or prisoners. He was fairly accomplished with it until the Japs brought along a MG one night and upset his bread rising for breakfast chowline. He had better sense than to take on a machine gun with a bolt gun though. He asked his captain the next day if he could get a Browning to fight off the encroaching Japs and was told the "soldiers on the frontline needed those." He then impolitely reminded the captain that the "frontline" began about twenty yards behind the mess operation. He got busted back to private, but in a night or two a well-worn BAR showed up in the mess for him to use, which he did until the threat was relieved. I suppose the Japs didn't know the BAR had a lot of miles on it, but they did at least recognized that someone had new technology.

Gosh dang that's a good WW2 story.

It just reminded me of a book I wanted to order a couple years ago and never did. It was about US small arms and had stories just like this that high lighted a particular weapon. One example I read from the book was about the Colt's Automatic 1911. The excerpt was from a USGI in the Korean war who slept with it in his fox hole. He was bundled up in his sleeping bag against the cold, next thing he knew a North Korean soldier dropped in on top of him. He didn't have time to do anything but pull the trigger on his 1911 FROM WITHIN HIS SLEEPING BAG. He said sleeping bag stuffing was flying around everywhere, when the smoke and cotton cleared, he was alive and the Korean was dead. If that rings a bell with anyone, let us know, I'd love to get that book.

[Hammer58]

Gosh dang that's a good WW2 story.

It just reminded me of a book I wanted to order a couple years ago and never did. It was about US small arms and had stories just like this that high lighted a particular weapon. One example I read from the book was about the Colt's Automatic 1911. The excerpt was from a USGI in the Korean war who slept with it in his fox hole. He was bundled up in his sleeping bag against the cold, next thing he knew a North Korean soldier dropped in on top of him. He didn't have time to do anything but pull the trigger on his 1911 FROM WITHIN HIS SLEEPING BAG. He said sleeping bag stuffing was flying around everywhere, when the smoke and cotton cleared, he was alive and the Korean was dead. If that rings a bell with anyone, let us know, I'd love to get that book.

My buddy's father is an old Frozen Chosin Marine. Recently, I found a 1911 with government markings for his son to buy and give to his Dad. The Old Salt had always wanted one. He told me how he constantly worked to get his hands on one for the very reason you describe. He said everyone wanted one so they could feel secure inside the sleeping bag with the .45 that they could quickly bring into action inside the bag. He recalled how guys were killed trying to get out of their bags before they could get to their rifles. When I was in the Corps in the '80s, those lessons from Korea were still being taught. We were not allowed to use sleeping bags in tactical situations only during stand down in rear areas. The reason given was incidents such as you and the Old Salt described in Korea.

[RobSmith]

I have a couple of relatives whom served with the 17th RCA in the Italian theater, I know pictures exist of them while in the service, I'll see if I can get copies of some of them to get an idea what they carried. One was known to be a driver for the officers so it'll be interesting to see if he was issued some kind of "2nd line" weapon.

[browningautorifle]

I know it's not overseas but my fater-in-law carried an M1917. He was transport company in Fredericton.

[rice 123]

I think I remember reading in the great crusade That eisenhower was put out with the free french complaining about being armed with 1917s and 03s instead of garands

[John Sukey (Deceased)]

I would assume that "band" on that rifle in the black and white pic was red. This was to make certain nobody tried to shove a .303 up the spout of a 30-06

[jamie5070]

I have one of the '17s sold to canada. It has "55 RCA" and the "C" and broad arrow on the stock.
john